<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The problem I see with just complying is that there is really no practical or cost-effective way to comply. You would have to somehow transition from battery cable to some other cable type, because typical fusible disconnect switch lugs are not going to be rated to accept fine-stranded battery cable, especially in the required size. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Bozo is right. I wouldn't let that circus survive in my town.</div><br clear="all"></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><br>Jason Szumlanski<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div><div><font color="#333333" face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208</font></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 5:14 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<p>Things like this do happen sometimes. I do not have time for these and know it will not do much good most of the time.</p>
<p>Do what the inspector (bozo) wants and fix it after he is gone.</p>
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<pre><strong><span style="font-size:small">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
<a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" rel="noopener" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397511" style="color:red"></span> </a><a style="color:blue;font-size:11px;font-family:"Lucida Grande",Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-weight:400;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" href="https://offgridsolar1.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397514" style="color:red"></span><span style="font-size:12pt">https://offgridsolar1.com/</span></a><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" rel="noopener" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397516" style="color:red"></span> </a>
e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" target="_blank">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>
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<p id="m_-5770790722070985531reply-intro">On 2025-07-29 2:02 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:</p>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Hold the phone! I would not let this become a precedent in a jurisdiction where I work. I'm not a CEC expert, but I'd fight this NEC question all the way to the state board in Florida. Here, the process would be to appeal to the Building Official, and if he is as clueless as the inspector, appeal to the Building Officials Association of Florida, which issues informal and formal rulings. </div>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">An ESS is a SYSTEM. As defined (NEC 2020), it is "One or more components assembled together capable of storing energy and providing electrical energy into the premises wiring system or an electric power production and distribution network." The inspector is conflating a <strong>battery</strong> with an <strong>ESS</strong>. Technically, the Simpliphi "battery" is really a battery with a BMS, the combination of which <em>could</em> be an ESS if that were all there was to the system, but in this context, the battery and BMS are simply parts of a larger ESS. </div>
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<div> A <strong>battery</strong> <span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">and BMS are</span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> just</span> <em>components</em> of an ESS.<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> There is a clear informational note in the NEC Handbook that includes inverters in what's included in an ESS. </span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span>T<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">he typical understanding is that a</span>n ESS might include:<br>
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<li>Batteries</li>
<li><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I</span>nverters</li>
<li><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Charge Controllers</span></li>
<li>BMS (Battery Management System)</li>
<li>Disconnects</li>
<li><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">OCPD</span></li>
<li>Monitoring hardware</li>
<li>Enclosures</li>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The purpose of 706.2 is to provide a disconnect switch to isolate the <strong>ESS</strong> from the building wiring and parallel operated sources (i.e. utility). A simple AC disconnect on the output of the inverter should suffice in this case. It doesn't need to be a blade-type visible load breaker switch (unless your utility requires it and it can serve double duty). It could be as simple as a circuit breaker enclosure with a circuit breaker. You can get a combination of the two rated at 100A at the big orange store for $109. You probably already have a lockable disconnect on the inverter output anyway. </div>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This is one where I would fight rather than comply.</div>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>Jason Szumlanski
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 4:13 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="auto">🤦🏻♂️ ugh these building departments..! I'm very surprised that they're requiring the battery conductors to open. I don't think they understand the gravity of what they're saying</div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 10:49 AM MD Electric & Solar <<a href="mailto:mdelectricsolar@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mdelectricsolar@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-size:small">We already have an RSD system installed, it shuts down the tigo's on the rooftop and it shuts down the AC output of the inverter, making the home safe for firefighters. I can't imagine what an additional battery shut down could do for safety, at 48V DC nominal?</div>
<div style="font-size:small">But we must comply with the AHJ........</div>
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<div style="font-size:small">I priced (online) an Eaton 100amp 600V DC rated knife switch NEMA 3R, $4000.00....ouch</div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 10:41 AM david quattro <<a href="mailto:david@quattrosolar.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">david@quattrosolar.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="auto">I use the SolArk 12v micro-circuit that triggers RSD. hopefully that's all they're looking for, is to kill ESS and solar DC. When using plunger-type, or single gang it's easy. But when they require a knife blade style switch it's tricky (with SolArk and Midnite). This is because in order to deenergize ESS/RSD you have to <u>complete</u> the micro circuit.</div>
<div dir="auto"> Eaton makes a Nema4 switch that can be turned upside down. that puts the red handle on the left side, which is unusual but I've done it, and I don't think it violates any requirement. </div>
<div dir="auto"> otherwise you're stuck using an ice cube relay. Initiating RSD is easy, but getting everything to turn back on is harder. Feel free to call me if you want</div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 9:46 AM MD Electric & Solar via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-size:small">Wondering if Midnight solar makes something outdoor rated, with a typical 250ADC breaker, like this:</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Outdoor rated, lockable....</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><a href="https://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=76&productCat_ID=8&sortOrder=5&act=p" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397518" style="color:red"></span>https://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=76&productCat_ID=8&sortOrder=5&act=p</a></div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 9:39 AM jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>Maybe if you left the key on a chain to open the door, and placard with instructions on the outside that would work?
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<div>On Jul 29, 2025, at 10:23 AM, MD Electric & Solar <<a href="mailto:mdelectricsolar@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mdelectricsolar@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-size:small">Correct, it does not have an external disconnect, but if you open the cover, each battery has it's own disconnect and the Sol-Ark has a battery disconnect. </div>
<div style="font-size:small">Looks like I'm in the market for a 100 amp rated outdoor, lockable DC rated knife switch.</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Mike</div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 9:16 AM jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>I had to look up that battery enclosure and if I understand correctly it does not have an external breaker/disconnect so yes the inspector is correct in the need for one if I understand.
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<div>On Jul 29, 2025, at 10:09 AM, MD Electric & Solar <<a href="mailto:mdelectricsolar@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mdelectricsolar@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-size:small">Here is the reference, attached.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 8:49 AM jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I'll let the code experts chime in, but I would ask for the code reference they are referring to.<br><br>The only one I can think of has to do with if the batteries are on the other side of a wall.<br><br> Thats as clean an install as they come<br><br>jay<br><br><br><br>> On Jul 29, 2025, at 9:43 AM, MDElectricSolar <<a href="mailto:mdelectricsolar@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mdelectricsolar@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> <br>> <image0.jpeg><br>> Michael D Nelson<br>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.<br>> 707-684-0064 mobile<br>> 707-884-1862 office<br>> <a href="http://www.mdelectricsolar.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397520" style="color:red"></span>www.mdelectricsolar.com</a><br>> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397522" style="color:red"></span>www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar</a><br>> <br>> <br>>> On Jul 29, 2025, at 8:06 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br>>> <br>>> What is the layout of the equipment<br>>> <br>>> Are the batteries next to and therefore in sight of the inverter?<br>>> <br>>> Jay<br>>> <br>>>> On Jul 29, 2025, at 8:44 AM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br>>>> <br>>>> Wrenches,<br>>>> I have a building inspector in my county of Sonoma who has just told me that we need to install a rapid shutdown switch of some type between my LFZ battery bank and my Solark 15k inverter. He mentioned some type of knife switch within 5 feet of the equipment. I cannot find any reference to this requirement anywhere but he insists it is required. These batteries happen to be simplify or brakes and Stratton batteries and each battery has its own 80 amp breaker on the battery and the Solark has a battery disconnect switch built-in. We do have module level RSD which kills the solar output as well as the inverter output when the button is pushed. Does anyone have any experience with this or can they point me to the correct code section or what are others doing to comply with this requirement?<br>>>> <br>>>> <br>>>> Michael D Nelson<br>>>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.<br>>>> 707-684-0064 mobile<br>>>> 707-884-1862 office<br>>>> <a href="http://www.mdelectricsolar.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397524" style="color:red"></span>www.mdelectricsolar.com</a><br>>>> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397527" style="color:red"></span>www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar</a><br>>>> <br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>>>> <br>>>> Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397529" style="color:red"></span>http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>>>> <br>>>> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>>>> <br>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:<br>>>> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397531" style="color:red"></span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>>>> <br>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br>>>> <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397533" style="color:red"></span>https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>>>> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397535" style="color:red"></span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>>>> <br>>>> List rules & etiquette:<br>>>> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397537" style="color:red"></span>http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>>>> <br>>>> Check out or update participant bios:<br>>>> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397539" style="color:red"></span>http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>>>> <br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>>> <br>>> Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397541" style="color:red"></span>http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>>> <br>>> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>>> <br>>> Change listserver email address & settings:<br>>> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397544" style="color:red"></span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>>> <br>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br>>> <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397546" style="color:red"></span>https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>>> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397548" style="color:red"></span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>>> <br>>> List rules & etiquette:<br>>> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397550" style="color:red"></span>http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>>> <br>>> Check out or update participant bios:<br>>> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397552" style="color:red"></span>http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>>> <br><br></blockquote>
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<div><span>MD Electric & Solar Inc.</span></div>
<div><span>Office: 707-412-3181</span></div>
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<div><span><a href="http://www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397556" style="color:red"></span>www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar</a></span></div>
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<div><span>Cell: 707-684-0064</span></div>
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<div><a style="font-size:12.8px" href="http://www.mdelectricsolar.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397559" style="color:red"></span>www.mdelectricsolar.com</a><span><br></span></div>
<div><span><a href="http://www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397561" style="color:red"></span>www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar</a></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Michael D Nelson</span></div>
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_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397567" style="color:red"></span>http://re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397569" style="color:red"></span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397571" style="color:red"></span>https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397574" style="color:red"></span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397576" style="color:red"></span>http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397578" style="color:red"></span>http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></blockquote>
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<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Michael D Nelson</span></div>
<div>
<div><span>MD Electric & Solar Inc.</span></div>
<div><span>Office: 707-412-3181</span></div>
<div><span>Cell: 707-684-0064</span></div>
</div>
<div><a style="font-size:12.8px" href="http://www.mdelectricsolar.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397580" style="color:red"></span>www.mdelectricsolar.com</a><span><br></span></div>
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_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397584" style="color:red"></span>http://re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397586" style="color:red"></span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397588" style="color:red"></span>https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397590" style="color:red"></span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397592" style="color:red"></span>http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span id="mt-tracked-link_0_1753825397594" style="color:red"></span>http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></blockquote>
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