<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>We have been installing solar hot water heating system since 1987. Previous to 87, during the Carter years, there were 100 solar companies in the Portland Oregon area. So far as we can tell, we are the last man standing doing solar thermal in Portland. Subsequently, we don’t know how to advise people on what to do with their solar thermal systems. The plumbing industry never embraced solar thermal, solar electric has sucked up all the solar thermal people, and heat pump hot water heaters have come along, which bring people to the same resource footprint as thermal brings people down to. I have slowly come to the painful conclusion that solar thermal is obsolete.</div><div><br></div><div>Thoughts?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23166"><b id="yiv6213109167yui_3_16_0_1_1418769668206_5436"><b id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23165"><font id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23164" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Andrew Koyaanisqatsi</font></b></b></div><div id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23122"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">President</span></div><div id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23169"><b id="yiv6213109167yui_3_16_0_1_1418769668206_5438"><b id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23168"><font id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23167" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471541494300_7795"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471541494300_7794">Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.<br><i id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471541494300_7793">The BRIGHT CHOICE</i></span></font><br></font></b></b></div><div id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23169"><b><b><font style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><font><span><i><br></i></span></font></font></b></b></div><div id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23174"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><b id="yiv6213109167yui_3_16_0_1_1418769668206_5439"><font id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23170">Since 1987,</font></b><b id="yiv6213109167yui_3_16_0_1_1418769668206_5435"><font id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23171"> helping you and your </font></b></span></div><div id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23174"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><b><font>Portland neighbors move</font></b><b id="yiv6213109167yui_3_16_0_1_1418769668206_5440"><font id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23173"> towards an environmentally sustainable future.</font></b></span></div><div id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23174"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><b><font><br></font></b></span></div><div id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23177"><b id="yiv6213109167yui_3_16_0_1_1418769668206_5442"><font id="yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23176" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><a dir="ltr" href="tel:503-238-4502" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="4">503-238-4502</a><br clear="none"><font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471541494300_7830"><a rel="nofollow" id="yiv6213109167yui_3_16_0_1_1418769668206_5441" target="_blank" href="http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/" shape="rect">www.SolarEnergyOregon.com</a></font></font></b></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jun 18, 2025, at 4:12 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
I have not read all of the comments on this thread so please excuse any repeats.
<div><br>
<div>The valley that I live in has so many drain back systems it’s amazing. I have inherited the service on them not that I wanted to. The trick seems to be that you need a pump that gets the Evac tube manifold full of water & pushes the air out very quickly
in order to eliminate the possibility of steam lockup. The taco 2699 series of pumps were used here for a lot of the systems . </div>
<div>There are many up sides to employing evac tubes in general & many down sides.</div>
<div>Upsides include:</div>
<div>Higher temperatures at colder air temps (if not covered with snow).</div>
<div>Lighter weight at installation .</div>
<div>Smaller footprint on roof or area of installation .</div>
<div>Production of hot water in less than desirable weather conditions.</div>
<div>Production of higher water temps.</div>
<div><br>
<div>The down sides of evac tube systems with drain back are:</div>
<div>When the tank gets hot & the circ pump to the collector gets turned off as long as it’s sunny the manifold is too hot to restart & resume to make additional hot water as it steam locks. This Of course limits the overall efficiency of the system & comprises
this the systems production, not good as you get 1 tank of hot water/ day unless very cloudy conditions for a bit & the manifold cools.This requires a controller that will not restart the pump or you burn out pumps. </div>
<div>Avoiding shut down requires having a very large tank(s).The systems here have oversized atmospheric tanks 300-800+ gallons each with dual heat exchangers one for solar & one for DHW before the backup source.</div>
<div>Pollution during the production of the tubes </div>
<div>All are Made in china due too pollution during tube production pollutionp </div>
<div>Steam lockup</div>
<div>Tubes Still covered in snow long after the sun has returned after the snow storm has cleared out </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Evac tubes have their uses though I tend to not install them In residential systems. I think that high water/ higher temperature requirements usage applications all day like schools, jails, commercial production facilities, dairies, etc .</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That all said. I tend to install flat plate collectors appropriately sized for system needs, with some kind of way to address overheat when people go on vacation midsummer so I don’t have to go rescue the system when I am on a vacation!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dana Orzel - dana@solarwork.com - 208.721.7003</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Jun 17, 2025, at 6:23 PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"> Hi Jay,
<div>I agree with Brad that Evacuated tubes are not a good (or even a reasonably possible) candidate for a drainback retrofit. If they are pass-through tubes, then they cannot fully drain as piping connections typically come through header connections at the
tops of the tubes. If they are sealed heat-pipe tubes, then not only is the header unlikely to drain properly, but the tubes themselves will stagnate at a very high temperature without heat transfer fluid flow. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I recommend a diversion heat- dump arrangement such as Todd suggests.Use paralleled runs of conventional hot water baseboard fin tube for the heat dissipator. This stuff is readily available at almost every plumbing supply house and it works well. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Diversion can be activated by either an electric 3-way valve and a set point controller, or the passive wax-thermostat 3-way valve that you mention. I have used both methods extensively with good results. The wax thermostat will probably be significantly
harder to find. Some years ago I ordered them through Low Energy Systems in Denver. Reach out to me off list and and I can supply some contact information. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Luke</div>
<div> <br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
<div>
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div>Luke Christy<br>
Renewable energy consultant<br>
<br>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: <br>
<br>
Solar Gain Services, LLC<br>
PO Box 531<br>
Monte Vista, CO 81144</div>
<div>719.588.3044<br>
sgsrenewables@gmail.com</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Jun 17, 2025, at 3:46 PM, jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
In doing research today I found the following, not sure where I can buy them at this point.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. solar dissipation tubes. that will do about 12,000 btu or at least this one does. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. 3 way thermostatic valve which uses a type of wax that opens and closes it at a specific temp and routes the heat through the dissipation tube vs the heat exchanger down below.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Change listserver email address & settings:</span><br>
<span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:</span><br>
<span>https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</span><br>
<span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br>
<span>http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Check out or update participant bios:</span><br>
<span>http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</span><br>
<span></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br><span></span><br><span>Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>Change listserver email address & settings:</span><br><span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:</span><br><span>https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</span><br><span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br><span>http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</span><br><span></span><br><span>Check out or update participant bios:</span><br><span>http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>