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<p>I had many more failures with the VFX inverters, but at least we
could rebuild them in the field. I think the old Trace stuff was
the pinacle of reliability. I still have many SWs going well over
20 years. I had great luck with Magnum, until I got my first dud
last year. Now they're out, but I'm installing a used one soon.
<br>
</p>
<p>I'm really at a loss as to what to deploy at this point. The
AIOs are not the answer for offgrid, but I'm going to give a
Midnite Rosie a try next, I think. I've been happy with Midnite's
600 v Charge Controllers, except don't use them on 24v! (48v
only)<br>
</p>
<p>I've tried some Victron stuff, which also requires a phone app
and blue tooth to program. Manuals could definitely use more
info, and tech support has been non existent. I use them for
small projects (inverter < 2 kW) for now. </p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar <br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/12/2025 9:52 AM, Drake Chamberlin
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2e5dc4712982c3944c1233057de05a2e@redwoodalliance.org">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Was Outback woes. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Ray, </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I agree completely. Off grid
reached its peak reliability and then declined. I thought it
peaked with the VFX and Radian inverters, both of which could
have stood some improvements. With the VFXR and the Radian A,
The inverters seemed to be made more cheaply and more prone to
problems. The rest is history.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The reliance on cell phones and
internet seems to me to be completely against the spirit of
self reliant off grid systems. In the old days, I would set up
a system and after a bit (or lot) of messing around would work
for years. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">What is the best off grid
inverter to use these days? </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Thank you,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Drake</span> </p>
<p><em>Drake Chamberlin</em></p>
<p><em>Athens Electric LLC</em></p>
<p><em>Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810</em></p>
<p><em>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional</em></p>
<div id="signature">---<br>
<div class="pre"
style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace"> </div>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
<p id="reply-intro">On 2025-05-11 14:37, Ray Walters via
RE-wrenches wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<div id="replybody1">
<div>
<p>I agree Michael, my call backs and free trips are way up
with Li batteries and AIO. I just don't know what the
system is doing or what to expect from the settings. Dark
Start has now become a normal thing. My blood pressure is
off the charts trying to talk to tech support with one bar
of cell service. I have a DC power supply and inverter to
restart the batts. I now own a PC laptop that's sole
purpose is firmware updates.</p>
<p>Guess what? Lead acid almost never needed a trip out to
restart. The sun comes out, and it starts recharging.
Lead acid is SELF HEALING. I just can't get LVD settings
that keep Li bats out of dark start territory. All is
fine until its not. Here's some experiences:</p>
<p>1) A Fortress firmware glitch that shut the whole system
down when it reached 100% SOC. <br>
Result: rotten food in both freezers, customer confidence:
they sold the property. <br>
Solution: upgrade Fortress Firmware. </p>
<p>2) Simpliphi and XW system works fine for 5 years, then a
low battery issue during bad weather causes all 4
Simpliphi batteries to fry. <br>
Result: customer is on generator full time for 2 months. <br>
Solution: finally get replacement batteries and replace XW
inverter with Magnum. </p>
<p>3) Homegrid batteries go into dark mode after solar shuts
off for a couple of days. No battery voltage to turn on
charge controller again. Result: 3 trips out to restart
batteries, and hang out for hours to make sure the
inverter will reconnect, and stay connected. <br>
Solution: still not sure, I raised the LVD and reconnect
voltages, but the battery's no load draw from the BMS
seems to be very significant. </p>
<p>4) Midnite AIO won't connect to phone app, which is the
only way to program it. I turn on the inverter, and it
just bricks. <br>
Result: It can't function out of the box without being
setup with the phone app that doesn't always work. <br>
Solution: after 2-1/2 hours on a bad connection with Tech
support, we finally get the inverter to reset and start
working properly. I had to delete and reload the phone
app 5 times before it would finally connect to the
inverter. What's going to happen when you come back in 5
years with a different phone?</p>
<p>I can share more with other companies I've tried
including Rubix, and Blue Planet. The only Li battery
I've not had trouble with was LiFe Blue (thanks Larry),
but they're only for 12v systems. I am still installing
lead acid for many of my customers, because we know what
to expect. A lesser evil is better than the unknown that
can be much worse. Retirement can't come too soon. </p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar</p>
<div class="v1moz-cite-prefix">On 5/11/2025 9:47 AM, Michael
Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<div dir="ltr">I wonder where all this is going? A
plethora of Chinese ( I understand virtually everything
electronic is manufactured there) AIOs and batteries,
each with their own communication protocols, programing
parameters, and individual peculiarities. I say this
with all modesty and humility, that until a few years
ago, it was a rare troubleshooting situation that I
needed guidance from tech support for most anything. Now
the extent of my prowess has been reduced to: "power
cycle" it and if that doesn't work call tech support,
and then be prepared for a frustrating, protracted, and
costly in terms of my time, experience.
<div> </div>
<div>I also wonder if it's sort of a "race to the
bottom" (thanks for that one Bob-O) as far a
quality goes. Discover discontinued it's AES battery
which I think was the pinnacle, and replaced it with
the Helios (which I have high hopes for). I'm hoping
it's not a clone of all the others that are similar
and I understand that the AES simply couldn't
compete. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Just my mind dump sans edit</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="v1gmail_quote v1gmail_quote_container">
<div class="v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, May 11, 2025
at 8:17 AM Jay <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="v1gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">Fortress and eg4 both use the same
basic LUX made inverters. </div>
<div dir="ltr">Sol ark is made by DEYE. </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">On
May 11, 2025, at 8:04 AM, Michael Morningstar
via RE-wrenches <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">How does the Lux, Envy, and
Sol-Ark compare to Midnite's AIO? I was all on
board the Midnite train but I'm coming to the
conclusion that they released it prematurely.
Glitchy and Quirky. </div>
<br>
<div class="v1gmail_quote">
<div class="v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun,
May 11, 2025 at 7:40 AM Jay via RE-wrenches
<<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="v1gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">One of the things I like
about the LUX is that you can do
programming with the built in display. </div>
<div dir="ltr">The online monitoring is
good as Maverick says. </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">I also think it's way more
accurate as well. </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">The LUX 12kw is a solid
unit. </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">On
May 11, 2025, at 7:35 AM, Maverick
Brown via RE-wrenches <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<div dir="ltr">William,
<div> </div>
<div>I have both the ENVY and Radian
(and XW at my own home).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The ENVY online experience is
great. It may have replaced the
Sol-Ark online monitoring as my
favorite. (I have installed about 20
Sol-Arks and they also have tons of
data and a great overall online
experience).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The data collected by ENVY is far
greater than OpticsRE, many more
parameters are saved. ENVY also has
a working smart phone App that shows
more data than the now offline /
defunct OpticsRE app.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>OpticsRE does log enough data to
understand that the system is
functioning, but the additional AC
data and way the information is
presented gives ENVY far superior
results. I do lean more towards the
way OpticsRE allows editing
parameters on the Devices section.
That's likely because I am more
familiar with the terminology. But,
The ENVY Inverter has a built in
display / touch screen that allows
you to edit all of the values and
make the system work without any
internet / wireless / bluetooth
connection. That is a great fall
back. I am used to the MATE3s, but
new customers have a crazy time with
learning how it works and where
values are able to be changed. The
ENVY App bridges that gap! </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Now the dream part is that since
Outback is now owned by the same
people that also sell the EG4 18kPV
(which is also made by Luxpower just
like the ENVY), the best of both
worlds could come about == more data
collected and an available and a
solid smart phone app for customers
that want such a thing.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The screenshot of the app is
straight forward and the tabs at the
bottom show charts, alarms and
settings.</div>
<div>The screenshot for desktop is
very detailed and you can scroll
down on the first page and get 3-4
screenfuls of data for just about
anything you want to know.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Let me know if you have a
specific question, I can give you a
comparison.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div><Screenshot 2025-05-11 at
9.11.09 AM.png></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><IMG_3420.PNG></div>
</div>
<div><br
id="v1m_-6119437739671546927m_2406455856986582016lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
<div>
<div dir="auto">
<div
style="color: #000000; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Maverick
Brown<br>
Off-Grid Solar Commander since
2006<br>
<strong>Maverick Solar
Enterprises, Inc.</strong></div>
<div
style="color: #000000; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><strong> •
Solar Commander Remote Power</strong></div>
<div
style="color: #000000; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><strong> •
SunFlow Systems Cathodic
Protection <br>
</strong><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:maverick@mavericksolar.com" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">maverick@mavericksolar.com</a><br>
512-460-9825</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<div>On May 10, 2025, at
9:58 PM, William Miller via
RE-wrenches <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Bought a
VFXR3648 and two FXR3048s
recently. They actually
worked! Miracle. <br
clear="all">
<br>
The client for which I am
suggesting an Envy 12
instead of new FM100s is
really attached to Optics.
Now that Optics is
unreliable it is easier to
suggest an alternative. </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">I'd like to
hear about the Envy on-line
interface. Is it ok?<br>
<br>
<div dir="auto">
<div
class="v1gmail_signature" dir="ltr">William Miller<br>
Miller Solar.com<br>
805-438-5600<br>
<a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
<div class="v1gmail_quote">
<div class="v1gmail_attr"
dir="ltr">On Sat, May
10, 2025 at 12:23 PM Jay
via RE-wrenches <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote
class="v1gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">As a
follow up. </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Has
anyone purchased a
new OB inverter or
CC or mate. </div>
<div dir="ltr">I mean
specifically remote
new outback
company. </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote
type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">On
May 10, 2025, at
11:19 AM, Todd
Cory via
RE-wrenches <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 14pt;">Well,
Outback's Optics
RE is down yet
again, also the
back up site too
and also the
users forum...
which had a
massive database
of current and
past problem
solving
archives. <br>
<br>
What a
clusterfuck this
new company is.<br>
<br>
Wise wrenches
should beware of
patronizing this
obvious sinking
ship.<br>
<br>
Todd<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: georgia;"><img-0.png></div>
<div
style="font-family: georgia;"> </div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from Finest
Planet WebMail.<br>
<div><img-0.png></div>
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List rules & etiquette:<br>
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<div> </div>
<span class="v1gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
<div class="v1gmail_signature" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica; min-height: 22px;"> </p>
<p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Michael
Morningstar </p>
<p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"> </p>
<p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Morningstar
Electric Inc</p>
<p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">PO
Box 1494</p>
<p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Mount
Shasta, CA 96067</p>
<p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">530-921-0560</p>
<p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">CSLB
1116835</p>
<p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:mjmorningstar@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">mjmorningstar@gmail.com</a></p>
<p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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<span></span><br>
<span>Pay optional member dues here: <a
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moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>List Address: <a
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When one doesn't work, try the other:</span><br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<span class="v1gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
<div class="v1gmail_signature" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica; min-height: 22px;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Michael
Morningstar </p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Morningstar
Electric Inc</p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">PO Box
1494</p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Mount
Shasta, CA 96067</p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">530-921-0560</p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">CSLB
1116835</p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:mjmorningstar@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">mjmorningstar@gmail.com</a></p>
<p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="v1moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="v1moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
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List Address: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
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href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
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List rules & etiquette:
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moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="pre"
style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
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Pay optional member dues here: <a
href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
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class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
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There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
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target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
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<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a>
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List rules & etiquette:
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Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
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