<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>I had many more failures with the VFX inverters, but at least we
      could rebuild them in the field.  I think the old Trace stuff was
      the pinacle of reliability.  I still have many SWs going well over
      20 years.  I had great luck with Magnum, until I got my first dud
      last year.  Now they're out, but I'm installing a used one soon.  
      <br>
    </p>
    <p>I'm really at a loss as to what to deploy at this point.  The
      AIOs are not the answer for offgrid, but I'm going to give a
      Midnite Rosie a try next, I think. I've been happy with Midnite's
      600 v Charge Controllers, except don't use them on 24v!  (48v
      only)<br>
    </p>
    <p>I've tried some Victron stuff, which also requires a phone app
      and blue tooth to program.  Manuals could definitely use more
      info, and tech support has been non existent.  I use them for
      small projects (inverter < 2 kW) for now.    </p>
    <p>Ray Walters<br>
      Remote Solar  <br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/12/2025 9:52 AM, Drake Chamberlin
      via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:2e5dc4712982c3944c1233057de05a2e@redwoodalliance.org">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Was Outback woes. </span></p>
      <p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Ray, </span></p>
      <p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I agree completely. Off grid
          reached its peak reliability and then declined. I thought it
          peaked with the VFX and Radian inverters, both of which could
          have stood some improvements. With the VFXR and the Radian A,
          The inverters seemed to be made more cheaply and more prone to
          problems. The rest is history.</span></p>
      <p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The reliance on cell phones and
          internet seems to me to be completely against the spirit of
          self reliant off grid systems. In the old days, I would set up
          a system and after a bit (or lot) of messing around would work
          for years. </span></p>
      <p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">What is the best off grid
          inverter to use these days? </span></p>
      <p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Thank you,</span></p>
      <p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Drake</span> </p>
      <p><em>Drake Chamberlin</em></p>
      <p><em>Athens Electric LLC</em></p>
      <p><em>Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810</em></p>
      <p><em>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional</em></p>
      <div id="signature">---<br>
        <div class="pre"
          style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace"> </div>
      </div>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p id="reply-intro">On 2025-05-11 14:37, Ray Walters via
        RE-wrenches wrote:</p>
      <blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
        <div id="replybody1">
          <div>
            <p>I agree Michael, my call backs and free trips are way up
              with Li batteries and AIO.  I just don't know what the
              system is doing or what to expect from the settings.  Dark
              Start has now become a normal thing.  My blood pressure is
              off the charts trying to talk to tech support with one bar
              of cell service.  I have a DC power supply and inverter to
              restart the batts.  I now own a PC laptop that's sole
              purpose is firmware updates.</p>
            <p>Guess what? Lead acid almost never needed a trip out to
              restart.  The sun comes out, and it starts recharging.
              Lead acid is SELF HEALING. I just can't get LVD settings
              that keep Li bats out of dark start territory.  All is
              fine until its not.  Here's some experiences:</p>
            <p>1) A Fortress firmware glitch that shut the whole system
              down when it reached 100% SOC.  <br>
              Result: rotten food in both freezers, customer confidence:
              they sold the property. <br>
              Solution: upgrade Fortress Firmware.   </p>
            <p>2) Simpliphi and XW system works fine for 5 years, then a
              low battery issue during bad weather causes all 4
              Simpliphi batteries to fry.  <br>
              Result: customer is on generator full time for 2 months. <br>
              Solution: finally get replacement batteries and replace XW
              inverter with Magnum.  </p>
            <p>3) Homegrid batteries go into dark mode after solar shuts
              off for a couple of days.  No battery voltage to turn on
              charge controller again.  Result: 3 trips out to restart
              batteries, and hang out for hours to make sure the
              inverter will reconnect, and stay connected.  <br>
              Solution: still not sure, I raised the LVD and reconnect
              voltages, but the battery's no load draw from the BMS
              seems to be very significant.  </p>
            <p>4) Midnite AIO won't connect to phone app, which is the
              only way to program it.  I turn on the inverter, and it
              just bricks.  <br>
              Result: It can't function out of the box without being
              setup with the phone app that doesn't always work.  <br>
              Solution: after 2-1/2 hours on a bad connection with Tech
              support, we finally get the inverter to reset and start
              working properly.  I had to delete and reload the phone
              app 5 times before it would finally connect to the
              inverter.   What's going to happen when you come back in 5
              years with a different phone?</p>
            <p>I can share more with other companies I've tried
              including Rubix, and Blue Planet.  The only Li battery
              I've not had trouble with was LiFe Blue (thanks Larry),
              but they're only for 12v systems.   I am still installing
              lead acid for many of my customers, because we know what
              to expect. A lesser evil is better than the unknown that
              can be much worse.  Retirement can't come too soon. </p>
            <p>Ray Walters<br>
              Remote Solar</p>
            <div class="v1moz-cite-prefix">On 5/11/2025 9:47 AM, Michael
              Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:</div>
            <blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
              <div dir="ltr">I wonder where all this is going? A
                plethora of Chinese ( I understand virtually everything
                electronic is manufactured there) AIOs and batteries,
                each with their own communication protocols, programing
                parameters, and individual peculiarities. I say this
                with all modesty and humility, that until a few years
                ago, it was a rare troubleshooting situation that I
                needed guidance from tech support for most anything. Now
                the extent of my prowess has been reduced to: "power
                cycle" it and if that doesn't work call tech support,
                and then be prepared for a frustrating, protracted, and
                costly in terms of my time, experience.
                <div> </div>
                <div>I also wonder if it's sort of a "race to the
                  bottom" (thanks for that one Bob-O) as far a
                  quality goes. Discover discontinued it's AES battery
                  which I think was the pinnacle, and replaced it with
                  the Helios (which I have high hopes for). I'm hoping
                  it's not a clone of all the others that are similar
                  and I understand that the AES simply couldn't
                  compete. </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div>Just my mind dump sans edit</div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="v1gmail_quote v1gmail_quote_container">
                <div class="v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, May 11, 2025
                  at 8:17 AM Jay <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
                    href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>>
                  wrote:</div>
                <blockquote class="v1gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
                  <div dir="auto">
                    <div dir="ltr">Fortress and eg4 both use the same
                      basic LUX made inverters. </div>
                    <div dir="ltr">Sol ark is made by DEYE. </div>
                    <div dir="ltr"> </div>
                    <div dir="ltr"> </div>
                    <div dir="ltr"><br>
                      <blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">On
                        May 11, 2025, at 8:04 AM, Michael Morningstar
                        via RE-wrenches <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <br>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div dir="ltr">How does the Lux, Envy, and
                          Sol-Ark compare to Midnite's AIO? I was all on
                          board the Midnite train but I'm coming to the
                          conclusion that they released it prematurely.
                          Glitchy and Quirky. </div>
                        <br>
                        <div class="v1gmail_quote">
                          <div class="v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun,
                            May 11, 2025 at 7:40 AM Jay via RE-wrenches
                            <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                            wrote:</div>
                          <blockquote class="v1gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
                            <div dir="auto">
                              <div dir="ltr">One of the things I like
                                about the LUX is that you can do
                                programming with the built in display. </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">The online monitoring is
                                good as Maverick says. </div>
                              <div dir="ltr"> </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">I also think it's way more
                                accurate as well. </div>
                              <div dir="ltr"> </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">The LUX 12kw is a solid
                                unit. </div>
                              <div dir="ltr"> </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
                              <div dir="ltr"> </div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                <blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">On
                                  May 11, 2025, at 7:35 AM, Maverick
                                  Brown via RE-wrenches <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <br>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
                                <div dir="ltr">William,
                                  <div> </div>
                                  <div>I have both the ENVY and Radian
                                    (and XW at my own home).</div>
                                  <div> </div>
                                  <div>The ENVY online experience is
                                    great. It may have replaced the
                                    Sol-Ark online monitoring as my
                                    favorite. (I have installed about 20
                                    Sol-Arks and they also have tons of
                                    data and a great overall online
                                    experience).</div>
                                  <div> </div>
                                  <div>The data collected by ENVY is far
                                    greater than OpticsRE, many more
                                    parameters are saved. ENVY also has
                                    a working smart phone App that shows
                                    more data than the now offline /
                                    defunct OpticsRE app.</div>
                                  <div> </div>
                                  <div>OpticsRE does log enough data to
                                    understand that the system is
                                    functioning, but the additional AC
                                    data and way the information is
                                    presented gives ENVY far superior
                                    results. I do lean more towards the
                                    way OpticsRE allows editing
                                    parameters on the Devices section.
                                    That's likely because I am more
                                    familiar with the terminology. But,
                                    The ENVY Inverter has a built in
                                    display / touch screen that allows
                                    you to edit all of the values and
                                    make the system work without any
                                    internet / wireless / bluetooth
                                    connection. That is a great fall
                                    back. I am used to the MATE3s, but
                                    new customers have a crazy time with
                                    learning how it works and where
                                    values are able to be changed. The
                                    ENVY App bridges that gap! </div>
                                  <div> </div>
                                  <div>Now the dream part is that since
                                    Outback is now owned by the same
                                    people that also sell the EG4 18kPV
                                    (which is also made by Luxpower just
                                    like the ENVY), the best of both
                                    worlds could come about == more data
                                    collected and an available and a
                                    solid smart phone app for customers
                                    that want such a thing.</div>
                                  <div> </div>
                                  <div>The screenshot of the app is
                                    straight forward and the tabs at the
                                    bottom show charts, alarms and
                                    settings.</div>
                                  <div>The screenshot for desktop is
                                    very detailed and you can scroll
                                    down on the first page and get 3-4
                                    screenfuls of data for just about
                                    anything you want to know.</div>
                                  <div> </div>
                                  <div>Let me know if you have a
                                    specific question, I can give you a
                                    comparison.</div>
                                  <div> </div>
                                  <div> </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div><Screenshot 2025-05-11 at
                                      9.11.09 AM.png></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div><IMG_3420.PNG></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br
id="v1m_-6119437739671546927m_2406455856986582016lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
                                    <div>
                                      <div dir="auto">
                                        <div
style="color: #000000; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Maverick
                                          Brown<br>
                                          Off-Grid Solar Commander since
                                          2006<br>
                                          <strong>Maverick Solar
                                            Enterprises, Inc.</strong></div>
                                        <div
style="color: #000000; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><strong> •
                                            Solar Commander Remote Power</strong></div>
                                        <div
style="color: #000000; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><strong> •
                                            SunFlow Systems Cathodic
                                            Protection <br>
                                          </strong><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:maverick@mavericksolar.com" rel="noreferrer"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">maverick@mavericksolar.com</a><br>
                                          512-460-9825</div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div><br>
                                      <blockquote type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
                                        <div>On May 10, 2025, at
                                          9:58 PM, William Miller via
                                          RE-wrenches <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                                          wrote:</div>
                                        <br>
                                        <div>
                                          <div dir="auto">Bought a
                                            VFXR3648 and two FXR3048s
                                            recently. They actually
                                            worked!  Miracle. <br
                                              clear="all">
                                            <br>
                                            The client for which I am
                                            suggesting an Envy 12
                                            instead of new FM100s is
                                            really attached to Optics.
                                            Now that Optics is
                                            unreliable it is easier to
                                            suggest an alternative. </div>
                                          <div dir="auto"> </div>
                                          <div dir="auto">I'd like to
                                            hear about the Envy on-line
                                            interface. Is it ok?<br>
                                            <br>
                                            <div dir="auto">
                                              <div
class="v1gmail_signature" dir="ltr">William Miller<br>
                                                Miller Solar.com<br>
                                                805-438-5600<br>
                                                <a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div> </div>
                                          <div><br>
                                            <div class="v1gmail_quote">
                                              <div class="v1gmail_attr"
                                                dir="ltr">On Sat, May
                                                10, 2025 at 12:23 PM Jay
                                                via RE-wrenches <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                                                wrote:</div>
                                              <blockquote
                                                class="v1gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
                                                <div dir="auto">
                                                  <div dir="ltr">As a
                                                    follow up. </div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"> </div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr">Has
                                                    anyone purchased a
                                                    new OB inverter or
                                                    CC or mate. </div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr">I mean
                                                    specifically remote
                                                    new outback
                                                    company. </div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"> </div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">On
                                                      May 10, 2025, at
                                                      11:19 AM, Todd
                                                      Cory via
                                                      RE-wrenches <<a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    type="cite"
style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
                                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                                      <div
style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 14pt;">Well,
                                                        Outback's Optics
                                                        RE is down yet
                                                        again, also the
                                                        back up site too
                                                        and also the
                                                        users forum...
                                                        which had a
                                                        massive database
                                                        of current and
                                                        past problem
                                                        solving
                                                        archives. <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        What a
                                                        clusterfuck this
                                                        new company is.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Wise wrenches
                                                        should beware of
                                                        patronizing this
                                                        obvious sinking
                                                        ship.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Todd<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div
style="font-family: georgia;"><img-0.png></div>
                                                      <div
style="font-family: georgia;"> </div>
                                                      <br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      Sent from Finest
                                                      Planet WebMail.<br>
                                                      <div><img-0.png></div>
                                                      <span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
                                                      <span>List
                                                        sponsored by
                                                        Redwood Alliance</span><br>
                                                      <span></span><br>
                                                      <span>Pay optional
                                                        member dues
                                                        here: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                                                      <span></span><br>
                                                      <span>List
                                                        Address: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                                                      <span></span><br>
                                                      <span>Change
                                                        listserver email
                                                        address &
                                                        settings:</span><br>
                                                      <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                                                      <span></span><br>
                                                      <span>There are
                                                        two list
                                                        archives for
                                                        searching. When
                                                        one doesn't
                                                        work, try the
                                                        other:</span><br>
                                                      <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a></span><br>
                                                      <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                                                      <span></span><br>
                                                      <span>List rules
                                                        & etiquette:</span><br>
                                                      <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span><br>
                                                      <span></span><br>
                                                      <span>Check out or
                                                        update
                                                        participant
                                                        bios:</span><br>
                                                      <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                                                      <span></span></div>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                List sponsored by
                                                Redwood Alliance<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Pay optional member dues
                                                here: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                                                <br>
                                                List Address: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                                                <br>
                                                Change listserver email
                                                address & settings:<br>
                                                <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                                                  target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                                                <br>
                                                There are two list
                                                archives for searching.
                                                When one doesn't work,
                                                try the other:<br>
                                                <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
                                                  target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
                                                <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                                                  target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                                                <br>
                                                List rules &
                                                etiquette:<br>
                                                <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
                                                <br>
                                                Check out or update
                                                participant bios:<br>
                                                <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                                                <br>
                                              </blockquote>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                          List sponsored by Redwood
                                          Alliance<br>
                                          <br>
                                          Pay optional member dues here:
                                          <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                                          <br>
                                          List Address: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                                          <br>
                                          Change listserver email
                                          address & settings:<br>
                                          <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                                          <br>
                                          There are two list archives
                                          for searching. When one
                                          doesn't work, try the other:<br>
                                          <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
                                          <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                                          <br>
                                          List rules & etiquette:<br>
                                          <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank"
                                            rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
                                          <br>
                                          Check out or update
                                          participant bios:<br>
                                          <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
                                            rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                                          <br>
                                        </div>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
                                  <span>List sponsored by Redwood
                                    Alliance</span><br>
                                  <span></span><br>
                                  <span>Pay optional member dues here: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                      href="http://re-wrenches.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                                  <span></span><br>
                                  <span>List Address: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                                  <span></span><br>
                                  <span>Change listserver email address
                                    & settings:</span><br>
                                  <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                                  <span></span><br>
                                  <span>There are two list archives for
                                    searching. When one doesn't work,
                                    try the other:</span><br>
                                  <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a></span><br>
                                  <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                                  <span></span><br>
                                  <span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br>
                                  <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank"
                                      rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span><br>
                                  <span></span><br>
                                  <span>Check out or update participant
                                    bios:</span><br>
                                  <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
                                      rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                                  <span></span></div>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
                            List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
                            <br>
                            Pay optional member dues here: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
                              href="http://re-wrenches.org"
                              target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                            <br>
                            List Address: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                            <br>
                            Change listserver email address &
                            settings:<br>
                            <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                              target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                            <br>
                            There are two list archives for searching.
                            When one doesn't work, try the other:<br>
                            <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
                              target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
                            <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                              target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                            <br>
                            List rules & etiquette:<br>
                            <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank"
                              rel="noopener noreferrer"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
                            <br>
                            Check out or update participant bios:<br>
                            <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
                              href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
                              target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                            <br>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                        <div> </div>
                        <div> </div>
                        <span class="v1gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
                        <div class="v1gmail_signature" dir="ltr">
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica; min-height: 22px;"> </p>
                            <p
                              style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Michael
                              Morningstar </p>
                            <p
                              style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"> </p>
                            <p
                              style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Morningstar
                              Electric Inc</p>
                            <p
                              style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">PO
                              Box 1494</p>
                            <p
                              style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Mount
                              Shasta, CA 96067</p>
                            <p
                              style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">530-921-0560</p>
                            <p
                              style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">CSLB
                              1116835</p>
                            <p
                              style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                href="mailto:mjmorningstar@gmail.com"
                                rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">mjmorningstar@gmail.com</a></p>
                            <p
                              style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"> </p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
                        <span>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br>
                        <span></span><br>
                        <span>Pay optional member dues here: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
                            href="http://re-wrenches.org"
                            target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                        <span></span><br>
                        <span>List Address: <a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                        <span></span><br>
                        <span>Change listserver email address &
                          settings:</span><br>
                        <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                            target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                        <span></span><br>
                        <span>There are two list archives for searching.
                          When one doesn't work, try the other:</span><br>
                        <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
                            target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a></span><br>
                        <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
                            target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                        <span></span><br>
                        <span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br>
                        <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank"
                            rel="noopener noreferrer"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span><br>
                        <span></span><br>
                        <span>Check out or update participant bios:</span><br>
                        <span><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
                            href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
                            target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
                        <span></span></div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <div> </div>
              <div> </div>
              <span class="v1gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
              <div class="v1gmail_signature" dir="ltr">
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <p
style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica; min-height: 22px;"> </p>
                  <p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Michael
                    Morningstar </p>
                  <p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"> </p>
                  <p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Morningstar
                    Electric Inc</p>
                  <p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">PO Box
                    1494</p>
                  <p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">Mount
                    Shasta, CA 96067</p>
                  <p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">530-921-0560</p>
                  <p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;">CSLB
                    1116835</p>
                  <p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"><a
class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
                      href="mailto:mjmorningstar@gmail.com"
                      rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">mjmorningstar@gmail.com</a></p>
                  <p style="margin: 0px; font: 18px Helvetica;"> </p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <fieldset class="v1moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
              <pre class="v1moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: <a
              class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
              rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a>

List Address: <a
              class="v1moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
              rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>

Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
              target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
              moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
<a class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
              target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
              moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a>
<a class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
              target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
              moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

List rules & etiquette:
<a class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
              target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
              moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>

Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="v1moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
              rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>

</pre>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div class="pre"
          style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">_______________________________________________<br>
          List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
          <br>
          Pay optional member dues here: <a
            href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
            rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
          <br>
          List Address: <a
            href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
          <br>
          Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
          <a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
            target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
          <br>
          There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
          work, try the other:<br>
          <a
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
            target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
          <a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
            target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
          <br>
          List rules & etiquette:<br>
          <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
            target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
          <br>
          Check out or update participant bios:<br>
          <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
            rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
          <br>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a>

List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>

Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>

Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>