<div dir="auto"><div>It's a tough location. Barrier island on the Gulf of Whatever you call it. The highest point on the island is about 3 feet above sea level. I think they are using the RO water for showers, laundry, etc. Drinking water is all bottled. But they have 5 ice makers, so I'm not sure where that comes from. Efficiency wasn't considered when it was built. </div><div><br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><br>Jason Szumlanski<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div><div><font color="#333333" face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208</font></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 9, 2025, 11:33 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="#467886" vlink="#96607D" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="m_-3329377875589864758WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Suggestion :<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">I start with a thorough water test: I have used these folks at National Testing Labs for 20+ years. Excellent service!</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">@ (440) 449-2525
<a href="https://watercheck.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://watercheck.com/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Multipage test results for lots of different stuff in water talk with them about what you have and what test they would suggest.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">If you want, contact me off list glad to send a copy of my house well test for your perusal.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">With the data they provide you from can narrow down what it is that you are wanting to be rid of & this opens up the options for treatment & filtration.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">I filter for 2 specific items: very light arsenic [1 refillable cartridge for this] & sulfur dioxide [we have hot springs down 600’ below the surface & at high water
times of the year slight sulfur smell turns out a carbon filter eliminates this]. 2 issues & 2 filters, done.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">I hope this helps & does not muddy the water, Ha!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">_________________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317">Dana Orzel
</span><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317">GREAT SOLAR WORKS!
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317">C – 208.721.7003 E –
</span><a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317;text-decoration:none">dana@solarwork.com</span></a><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317">W - www. <a href="http://greatsolarworks.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">greatsolarworks.com</a>
</span><a href="http://www.solarwork.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317;text-decoration:none">www.solarwork.com</span></a><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><u><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317">“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”<u></u><u></u></span></u></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
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<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>Cc: Dana Orzel <<a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dana@solarwork.com</a>><br>Bcc: <br>Date: Fri, 9 May 2025 18:10:24 +0000<br>Subject: [RE-wrenches] Off-Grid Whole House RO<br>
<div lang="EN-US" link="#467886" vlink="#96607D" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="m_-3329377875589864758WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">I really have not been following this but: IMHO RO off grid is wasteful & not appropriate.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li class="m_-3329377875589864758MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">There are RO systems that use a lot less water than other RO systems. All RO systems are not equal.<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-3329377875589864758MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">There are many filtration systems that can do what RO does without wasting any water at all. You will go thru
filters though.<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-3329377875589864758MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">I understand the brackish/salt? Issue I have done large house sized RO systems to a 2,500-gallon tank in CO.<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-3329377875589864758MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">The challenge with most water filtration companies is they are used to the grid - lots of power & unlimited waste.<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-3329377875589864758MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Haul or get delivered water? Had a few folks back in the day with solid rock under there place with no water
under the rock.<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-3329377875589864758MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">**. Assuming the RO system doesn’t need rhe 1.25hp pump ( i am assuming the RO goes into a tank and much then has a pressure pump to supply the house. If it doesn’t I would recommend
installing said design) I’d install a smaller motor and pump head to better match the RO flow rate.
<br>
You could look at getting a high efficiency DC pump or 3 phase with vfd. <br>
Sun pumps has such things. <span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">
<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-3329377875589864758MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">I like #6 so far…<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-3329377875589864758MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Maybe Ro at a few locations for drinking & a lesser filtrated water for shower etc?</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>
<p class="m_-3329377875589864758MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">_________________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317">Dana Orzel
</span><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317">GREAT SOLAR WORKS!
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317">C – 208.721.7003 E –
</span><a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317;text-decoration:none">dana@solarwork.com</span></a><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317">W - www. <a href="http://greatsolarworks.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">greatsolarworks.com</a>
</span><a href="http://www.solarwork.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317;text-decoration:none">www.solarwork.com</span></a><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><u><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#275317">“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”<u></u><u></u></span></u></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
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<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>Cc: Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>><br>Bcc: <br>Date: Fri, 9 May 2025 17:53:55 +0000<br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-Grid Whole House RO<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">That is what I was thinking, that the RO booster pump doesn't need a lot of pressure on the inlet side. There is a lot of wastewater, but I have not calculated the ratio. My visual
analysis is that is it more like 6:1 or more. The production level is very low, perhaps 1-2 gallons per minute. I would love to not have a well pump running at all when producing RO, pumping raw water into a holding tank in advance of RO production. I don't
think the owner is opposed to managing this manually, but it could also be set up on a solar direct DC pump or on a smart load output of the inverters if using an AC pump.</span><br clear="all">
</div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The house does have rainwater catchment that is great in the summer, producing 100% of its needs. However, the property is more heavily used in the dry winter months. So the rainwater
system doesn't align with the use case for the home (vacation/second home in the nice season in Florida).</span></div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Jason Szumlanski
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div>
<div><font color="#333333" face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, May 8, 2025 at 3:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Hi Jason<br>
<br>
What’s the actual water output from<br>
The RO? We had one at our house before I took it out and replaced the house water with rainwater catchment. 3 yrs and counting in the high desert.
<br>
I couldn’t live with the 2-3 to 1 loss ratio. <br>
<br>
A few options as I suspect the actual RO output is closer to 1-2 gpm. <br>
1. Use a 1/3hp well pump into a large pressure tank with relatively low pressure switch. You might even get away with a small sump pump. The RO should t need but minimal input pressure
<br>
<br>
2. Assuming the RO system doesn’t need rhe 1.25hp pump ( i am assuming the RO goes into a tank and much then has a pressure pump to supply the house. If it doesn’t I would recommend installing said design) I’d install a smaller motor and pump head to better
match the RO flow rate. <br>
You could look at getting a high efficiency DC pump or 3 phase with vfd. <br>
Sun pumps has such things. <br>
<br>
Jay<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On May 8, 2025, at 12:38 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Water pump is not my strong suit. I usually leave that up to the experts around here. Unfortunately, the experts are clueless when it comes to off-grid living. I have a client with a setup that is pretty unworkable. I'm trying to give him some general guidance.
<br>
> <br>
> The setup uses a brackish water (might as well be salt water) very shallow well. It is about 3 ft underground for the water table. The RO system installer has a 1 HP 1.25 SF Century centrifugal surface pump drawing water from the well and pressurizing the
inlet of a StaRite 1.25 HP booster pump designed for about 10 GPM at 150 PSI to run water through the RO system.
<br>
> <br>
> Both of the pumps run simultaneously and continuously when producing water, and the water production is ridiculously low. I understand that RO production is going to be slow, but the amount of power these pumps are using is pure insanity. I have advised the
client that, at a minimum, this system needs to be on a smart load circuit to run only when there is adequate battery capacity. The startup surgery is not a concern, but it does flicker the lights and it makes quite the racket.
<br>
> <br>
> My thoughts are that the well pump is drastically oversized. The booster pump only needs 10 gallons per minute, and it has a suction head of 15 ft. I don't even know if the well pump pressurizing the booster pump inlet is required. I'm thinking we should
be slow pumping water into an interim holding tank at least at the height of the booster pump. At a minimum, the well pump should be on a pressure switch with pressure tank so it can cycle.
<br>
> <br>
> Can anyone give me some general guidance, and perhaps a VFD pump that does not have the startup surge and is maybe more efficient? During times of heavy use, the RO system can easily eat up half of the PV produced during a day at this site.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Jason Szumlanski <br>
> Florida Solar Design Group <br>
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