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<p>The whole RSS situation needs to be looked at in terms of whose
lives are actually at risk. Apparently Fire fighters are much
more worthy than solar installers. Obviously, solar installers
are at risk of falling from steep roofs while trying to install,
troubleshoot, and repair unnecessary RSS systems, but how many
fire fighters has RSS saved? <br>
</p>
<p>An actual body count will show solar installers are paying with
their bodies and their lives to protect fire fighters from an
almost non existent risk. Even the fire fighters responding to
another solar installer fall injury would agree. We all have
better things to do.<br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/27/2025 11:33 PM, Bill Battagin
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0b1726a0-066f-4b9b-bcdd-780d53291a58@psln.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>William,</p>
<p> I STILL fee like RSS is, as implemented by code and
product development is a lousy solution to a very small
problem. There are other simple safer less expensive, lower
maintenance measures than can be taken to protect first
responders from danger. Just one example with string inverters
and thus higher voltages on the roof is mandate that after the
combiner box that's located within a foot of the array route the
metal conduit off the roof directly behind it into the attic
straight down to the joists perpendicular to the roof plane. </p>
<p> And then train, if even necessary, the fire
responder on the roof anxious to plunge his saw into the roof to
not vent through the array. I believe this is referred to as
common sense. Has this ever happened anyway? Has anyone ever
been electrocuted in any type of first responding situation due
to contact with voltages produced from an array? If so, we have
to also consider damage or harm done by the RSS excess wiring
and equipment failures. Of course micros are inherently "safe"
from an RSS standpoint though there are more connections and
equipment failure points on the roof and in our mountainous
territory that means more often steeper metal roofs. Whew,
another whole issue.<br>
</p>
<p> I realize that the DC run from the array combiner to
the inverter is still hot...maybe require that run to be in red
metal conduit labelled "Danger, Always energized"? Yes, I'm
still a string inverter guy.<br>
</p>
<p> With NEM3 in full swing and the federal government
now on the solar warpath we certainly won't have to 'worry'
about a big rush of installs in PG&E/California area which
is most of the state. You thought resi rooftop solar was just
for the well-off before, NEM3 insured that it will remain that
way. Maybe this will give the regulators time to reconsider RSS.</p>
<p>Bill<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up
</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/27/2025 5:05 PM, William Miller
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:9520cf0e91669507dca503dfd7455fcc@mail.gmail.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Wally,
Todd:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
have been pondering this discussion since it first
appeared. My conclusion is that you both have valid
points to make:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">There
are forces at work to make it harder for people to
generate their own power and take revenue away from
established corporations. Large utilities did not
initiate net metering, they were forced to do so by
legislation and I am sure they would like to go back to
being the only energy producers in their service area.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Not
every new hurdle we face is a product of these forces.
Some are driven by legitimate safety concerns.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If
we lump these two points together and don’t offer
reasoned, evidence-supported claims to our arguments, we
can look like conspiracy theorists.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
solution, in my humble opinion, is to look carefully and
dispassionately at the problems we face, back our
conclusions with facts, and communicate our concerns
clearly and effectively to the public, to our customers
and to legislators and decision makers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If
there is a legitimate safety concern, we need to ask
ourselves: Are the proposed solutions realistic? If the
solutions are draconian, unreasonably difficult or
ineffective, then we are not resolving the safety issue.
This does not always mean dark forces are conspiring
against us. It may be that we need to rethink a given
solution.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
original discussion was about RSS. My view has been
changed by the discussion. I have limited experience with
RSS systems that are not part of an optimizer or
micro-inverter system. I have been fortunate that none of
my RSDs have burst into flames, but there is credible
evidence this has happened. We have seen first-hand
testimony that fire responders have not been adequately
trained to activate RSS, making it useless.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
disagree with the need to put RSS on ground mounted
arrays. They are required if the feeder enters a building
that has any use other than to house solar power
equipment. If you provide an external disconnect,
requiring RSS seems totally unnecessary.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Furthermore,
UL3741 has me really scratching my head. The original RSS
requirements specified any voltage above 30 as being
hazardous. Then it became 80 volts. Now with UL3741, up
to 160 volts is safe? I am reading an <a
href="https://www.mayfield.energy/technical-articles/ul3741/"
moz-do-not-send="true">article</a> that says 1,000 VDC
may be allowed.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It
seems we have a huge credibility problem here. There is
no consensus on what voltages are unsafe and we have
safety equipment not up to the task. This credibility
problem looks like a conspiracy but it be more accurate to
call it a competency issue. The regulators have been
quick to mandate without a clear understanding of the
safety thresholds and manufacturers have been quick to
fill a market gap with inadequate products.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It
is a shame Ms. Hren did not respond to my questions about
how this all came about. I don’t mean to put her on the
spot but she offered her credentials as a member of the
code making panel.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Getting
back to my main point, it is frustrating navigating the
complicated regulatory and technical landscape that PV
contracting has become. If we want to advocate for
ourselves, we need to communicate clearly and calmly
supported by facts. Labeling the problems as a conspiracy
won’t win any arguments.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sincerely,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William
Miller</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller
Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA
Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wallace Stahle via RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 19, 2025 10:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Wallace Stahle<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] No Mistake
Conspiricy?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So Todd,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What part of the idea or premise that
an industry which produces, distributes and sells electric
energy to end users at great profit, in PG&E's case at
least, desires to exclude self generators from their grid
and plans, lobbies and in fact conspires with other
industry stakeholders to tilt the ground rules in their
favor by way of the CA PUC is ”IDIOTIC”?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To think an investor owned utility
selling energy to end users is not working to limit those
same end users from benefiting from self generation is
naive at least. Or even idiotic maybe.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can you further define what part of
this idea is idiotic vs rational on the utilities part to
limit self generation?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I understand this topic is not specific
to wrenching and may not belong on this list but given
that getting interconnection agreements seems to be
critical to the list it may be a topic worth considering.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Respectfully</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Wallace
Stahle</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Future
Electric Energy Co</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">PO Box
236</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Willits,
CA 95490</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">707-459-0474</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Lic.#C10-762093</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><a
href="mailto:future@pacific.net"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">future@pacific.net</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Feb 18, 2025, at 9:38 AM, Todd
Cory via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Can
we please keep these idiotic conspiracy
theories off this list.</span></strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""><br>
<br>
</span><strong><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Thank
you...</span></strong><b><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""><br>
<br>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">On
Tuesday, February 18, 2025 7:13am, "Drake
Chamberlin via RE-wrenches" <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
said:</span></p>
</div>
<div id="SafeStyles1739900188">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:13.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">Hi
David,</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">RSS
is no mistake. The War on Solar is real. Due
to a recent computer crash, I am having
problems finding my links documenting the
intentional attack on PV from the Koch
Brothers and the utility industry in general.
I will check on another computer that may
still have the information. It is at a
different location.</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">I
went on the Wrench list with my concerns when
this was first proposed, until I was told to
stop. Individual homeowner solar is viewed as
a big problem for utility profits. There are
other ways to safeguard firefighters. </span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""></span></p>
<div id="signature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">--
</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">Cheers,</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New"">Drake
</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Drake
Chamberlin</span></em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Athens
Electric LLC</span></em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Ohio
Electrical Contractor’s License 44810</span></em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">NABCEP
Certified PV Installation Professional</span></em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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