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    <p>William,</p>
    <p>            I STILL fee like RSS is, as implemented by code and
      product development is a lousy solution to a very small problem. 
      There are other simple safer less expensive, lower maintenance
      measures than can be taken to protect first responders from
      danger. Just one example with string inverters and thus higher
      voltages on the roof is mandate that after the combiner box that's
      located within a foot of the array route the metal conduit off the
      roof directly behind it into the attic straight down to the joists
      perpendicular to the roof plane.  </p>
    <p>            And then train, if even necessary, the fire responder
      on the roof anxious to plunge his saw into the roof to not vent
      through the array. I believe this is referred to as common sense. 
      Has this ever happened anyway?  Has anyone ever been electrocuted
      in any type of first responding situation due to contact with
      voltages produced from an array?  If so, we have to also consider
      damage or harm done by the RSS excess wiring and equipment
      failures.  Of course micros are inherently "safe" from an RSS
      standpoint though there are more connections and equipment failure
      points on the roof and in our mountainous territory that means
      more often steeper metal roofs. Whew, another whole issue.<br>
    </p>
    <p>        I realize that the DC run from the array combiner to the
      inverter is still hot...maybe require that run to be in red metal
      conduit labelled "Danger, Always energized"? Yes, I'm still a
      string inverter guy.<br>
    </p>
    <p>            With NEM3 in full swing and the federal government
      now on the solar warpath we certainly won't have to 'worry' about
      a big rush of installs in PG&E/California area which is most
      of the state.  You thought resi rooftop solar was just for the
      well-off before, NEM3 insured that it will remain that way. Maybe
      this will give the regulators time to reconsider RSS.</p>
    <p>Bill<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

</pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/27/2025 5:05 PM, William Miller
      via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:9520cf0e91669507dca503dfd7455fcc@mail.gmail.com">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Wally,
            Todd:</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
            have been pondering this discussion since it first
            appeared.  My conclusion is that you both have valid points
            to make:</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
            style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
                style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        </span></span></span><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">There
            are forces at work to make it harder for people to generate
            their own power and take revenue away from established
            corporations.  Large utilities did not initiate net
            metering, they were forced to do so by legislation and I am
            sure they would like to go back to being the only energy
            producers in their service area.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
            style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
                style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        </span></span></span><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Not
            every new hurdle we face is a product of these forces.  Some
            are driven by legitimate safety concerns.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If
            we lump these two points together and don’t offer reasoned,
            evidence-supported claims to our arguments, we can look like
            conspiracy theorists.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
            solution, in my humble opinion, is to look carefully and
            dispassionately at the problems we face, back our
            conclusions with facts, and communicate our concerns clearly
            and effectively to the public, to our customers and to
            legislators and decision makers.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If
            there is a legitimate safety concern, we need to ask
            ourselves: Are the proposed solutions realistic?  If the
            solutions are draconian, unreasonably difficult or
            ineffective, then we are not resolving the safety issue. 
            This does not always mean dark forces are conspiring against
            us.  It may be that we need to rethink a given solution.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
            original discussion was about RSS.  My view has been changed
            by the discussion.  I have limited experience with RSS
            systems that are not part of an optimizer or micro-inverter
            system.  I have been fortunate that none of my RSDs have
            burst into flames, but there is credible evidence this has
            happened.  We have seen first-hand testimony that fire
            responders have not been adequately trained to activate RSS,
            making it useless.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
            disagree with the need to put RSS on ground mounted arrays. 
            They are required if the feeder enters a building that has
            any use other than to house solar power equipment.  If you
            provide an external disconnect, requiring RSS seems totally
            unnecessary.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Furthermore,
            UL3741 has me really scratching my head.  The original RSS
            requirements specified any voltage above 30 as being
            hazardous.  Then it became 80 volts.  Now with UL3741, up to
            160 volts is safe?  I am reading an <a
href="https://www.mayfield.energy/technical-articles/ul3741/"
              moz-do-not-send="true">article</a> that says 1,000 VDC may
            be allowed.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It
            seems we have a huge credibility problem here.  There is no
            consensus on what voltages are unsafe and we have safety
            equipment not up to the task.  This credibility problem
            looks like a conspiracy but it be more accurate to call it a
            competency issue.  The regulators have been quick to mandate
            without a clear understanding of the safety thresholds and
            manufacturers have been quick to fill a market gap with
            inadequate products.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It
            is a shame Ms. Hren did not respond to my questions about
            how this all came about.  I don’t mean to put her on the
            spot but she offered her credentials as a member of the code
            making panel.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Getting
            back to my main point, it is frustrating navigating the
            complicated regulatory and technical landscape that PV
            contracting has become.  If we want to advocate for
            ourselves, we need to communicate clearly and calmly
            supported by facts.  Labeling the problems as a conspiracy
            won’t win any arguments.</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sincerely,</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William
            Miller</span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller
              Solar</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395
              Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
                href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA
              Lic. 773985</span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
        <div>
          <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
                <b>On Behalf Of </b>Wallace Stahle via RE-wrenches<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 19, 2025 10:12 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
                <b>Cc:</b> Wallace Stahle<br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] No Mistake Conspiricy?</span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">So Todd,</p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">What part of the idea or premise that an
            industry which produces, distributes and sells electric
            energy to end users at great profit, in PG&E's case at
            least, desires to exclude self generators from their grid
            and plans, lobbies and in fact conspires with other industry
            stakeholders to tilt the ground rules in their favor by way
            of the CA PUC is ”IDIOTIC”?</p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">To think an investor owned utility
            selling energy to end users is not working to limit those
            same end users from benefiting from self generation is naive
            at least. Or even idiotic maybe.</p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Can you further define what part of this
            idea is idiotic vs rational on the utilities part to limit
            self generation?</p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">I understand this topic is not specific
            to wrenching and may not belong on this list but given that
            getting interconnection agreements seems to be critical to
            the list it may be a topic worth considering.</p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Respectfully</p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Wallace
                Stahle</span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Future
                Electric Energy Co</span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">PO Box
                236</span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Willits,
                CA 95490</span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">707-459-0474</span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Lic.#C10-762093</span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><a
                  href="mailto:future@pacific.net"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">future@pacific.net</a></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">On Feb 18, 2025, at 9:38 AM, Todd
                  Cory via RE-wrenches <<a
                    href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                  wrote:</p>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Can
                        we please keep these idiotic conspiracy theories
                        off this list.</span></strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""><br>
                      <br>
                    </span><strong><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Thank
                        you...</span></strong><b><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""><br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                      </span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""><br>
                      <br>
                    </span></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">On
                      Tuesday, February 18, 2025 7:13am, "Drake
                      Chamberlin via RE-wrenches" <<a
                        href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                      said:</span></p>
                </div>
                <div id="SafeStyles1739900188">
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:13.5pt"><span
                        style="font-family:"Courier New"">Hi
                        David,</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""><br>
                        <br>
                      </span><span
                        style="font-family:"Courier New"">RSS
                        is no mistake. The War on Solar is real. Due to
                        a recent computer crash, I am having problems
                        finding my links documenting the intentional
                        attack on PV from the Koch Brothers and the
                        utility industry in general. I will check on
                        another computer that may still have the
                        information. It is at a different location.</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""><br>
                        <br>
                      </span><span
                        style="font-family:"Courier New"">I
                        went on the Wrench list with my concerns when
                        this was first proposed, until I was told to
                        stop. Individual homeowner solar is viewed as a
                        big problem for utility profits. There are other
                        ways to safeguard firefighters. </span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""></span></p>
                    <div id="signature">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-family:"Courier New"">--
                        </span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-family:"Courier New"">Cheers,</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""> </span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-family:"Courier New"">Drake
                        </span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier New""> </span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Drake
                              Chamberlin</span></em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Athens
                              Electric LLC</span></em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">Ohio
                              Electrical Contractor’s License 44810</span></em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">NABCEP
                              Certified PV Installation Professional</span></em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif""></span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
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          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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      <pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

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</pre>
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