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<p>I have many times had to push back and not install the solar
equipment in the plumbing and mechanical room, even though that
was the original plan. Usually the plumber and HVAC folks are all
very happy to not have me in there too. Those rooms always get
over crowded, and someone ends up in somebody else's space. I
just say NO, and find a better place. A side wall in the garage
is usually nice. <br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/21/2025 6:03 AM, Lou Russo via
RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAEE7mxqUuebXi-M725hrXVEEK_aUhKP6Mu=0OWiyQUp_cXU7pw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Aloha All,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I did manage to work it out with the engineer. After
speaking with my AHJ, consulting RE-wrenches, speaking with
other contractors and going through the code book I asked the
engineer to add "install per 210.8" to his text reading
"Maintain 6' clear of water sources". The supervising
inspector and our area inspector, both agree 210.8 is not
applicable in this situation. The engineer gets what he wants
and since 210.8 is not applicable in this situation the
language on the plans is a mute point. We will also be
squeezing the equipment together a bit to get as close to
6ft as possible, throw in a 3R gutter and everyone is happy.
Including the homeowner who was not budging on the location of
the plumbing and electrical equipment. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will approach the homeowner about a shroud of some kind
over the pump once the dust settles.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, I could have gone with another engineer (we use
several) but the majority of the work was done and I did not
want to further ruffle any feathers. I have to think at some
point I will get wind of the fact that the engineer got burned
by a similar situation. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, as William said his case "was not watertight" and I
think he was standing his ground so firmly that even if he
realized he was incorrect he could not make the u-turn.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Re-Learned my lesson here, never get too far down the
design path using the clients ideas. Sometimes I am just to
flexible with our clients and their ideas.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you for all your input, as always it is much
appreciated. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Aloha,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Lou Russo </div>
<div>Owner</div>
<div><a href="mailto:lou@spreesolarsystems.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lou@spreesolarsystems.com</a></div>
<div>Office - 808 345 6762</div>
<div>Spree Solar Systems LLC </div>
<div>CT-34322</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at
4:10 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Is there a different engineer you can hire to
stamp this job?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at
10:11 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jay:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">3R is for
protection from falling water, like rain or
dripping water. This is not protection against
spraying water. <a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_enclosure_types"
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">NEMA 4</a>
is for protection from spraying water.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">More random
thoughts about the discussion that may or may
not be relevant:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span
style="font-family:Symbol">·<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The original
post indicated there are practical reasons not
to proceed with the project. Coupled with the
engineers reticence it seems another option or
some mitigation is called for. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span
style="font-family:Symbol">·<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">To be a good
engineer one must be a good communicator. It
was said the engineer closed off discussion. It
may be he presented his best case as to why not
and now wants to move on.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span
style="font-family:Symbol">·<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If the sole
objection the engineer had was based on code
compliance, it sounds like the engineer may not
have a watertight case (pun intended).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span
style="font-family:Symbol">·<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Design work
is all about decision making. I ask myself:</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:1in"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">1.<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Is it safe?</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:1in"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">2.<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Is it legal?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:0.25in;text-indent:0.5in"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Ideally both
answers are Yes. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:0.25in;text-indent:0.5in"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If 1 is a No
then it is time for a redesign.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.75in"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If 1 is Yes
and 2 is No and there is no easy alternative to
the design I try to get a waiver. I might talk
with the building department or Fire Marshall
and make my case.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span
style="font-family:Symbol">·<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Maybe it’s
time to think inside the box: Could a removable
spray hood be fitted over the pump?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">William</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Miller Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">17395 Oak
Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">CA Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> Jay [mailto:<a
href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com"
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Sent:</b>
Thursday, March 20, 2025 9:22 AM<br>
<b style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">To:</b>
<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">william@millersolar.com</a>;
RE-wrenches<br>
<b style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Subject:</b>
Re: [RE-wrenches] 210.8</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If the equipment is 3R
outdoor rated then it should be fine. Otherwise
I do like the partition idea. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">A story I recently heard from
a buddy was almost exactly the same situation
and an earthquake broke the line after the
pressure pump that sprayed water directly into
the 2 Outback vfx inverters. Killing rhem both. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jay</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">On
Mar 20, 2025, at 9:53 AM, William Miller via
RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Friends:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If there is
a practical reason why something should not
be done then the code is irrelevant.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I do not
like installing electrical equipment near
plumbing so I get it. Maybe a partition or
wing wall could be implemented to protect
from spray if there is a leak?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">William</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Miller Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">17395 Oak
Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">CA Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> RE-wrenches
[mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">On
Behalf Of </b>Lou Russo via RE-wrenches<br>
<b style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Sent:</b>
Thursday, March 20, 2025 8:39 AM<br>
<b style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">To:</b>
Jason Szumlanski<br>
<b style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Cc:</b>
Lou Russo; RE-wrenches<br>
<b style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Subject:</b>
Re: [RE-wrenches] 210.8</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jason, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">That is my
understanding as well. But he feels
strongly enough that he will pull out from
the project if I don't comply and he does
not want to discuss it further. It is his
license so he can do what he wants to do.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have been working
with him for 15 years and he is usually
reasonably, so it makes me wonder why he
is standing his ground.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">He does not even want
to have a general discussion about 210.8.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Very odd. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Mar 20, 2025,
11:07 AM Jason Szumlanski <<a
href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">210.8 covers GFCI protection for
outlets and receptacles.
Hard-wired branch circuits and
feeders of a PV and ESS system are
not considered outlets or
receptacles.</span></span><br
clear="all">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">If I am not mistaken, each
subsection specifically mentions
outlets and/or receptacles. Even
the section about mini-splits is
talking about cord and plug
connected units, not hard-wired
appliances.</span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">The entirety of 210 is for branch
circuits only, so feeders would
not fall under this section.</span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Hopefully that helps!</span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Jason Szumlanski</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Roboto;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar
Design Group<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar
Professional (PVIP)<br>
Florida State Certified Solar
Contractor CVC56956</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Roboto;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Florida Certified
Electrical Contractor
EC13013208</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Mar 20,
2025 at 10:10 AM Lou Russo via
RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Aloha All,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My engineer is
pushing back on our design,
which calls for a battery and load
center to be installed within 6ft
of the water pump and filter, the
inverter is 7ft away. He is citing
NEC 2020 210.8 and the need for
GFCI protection. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now besides <span
style="background:repeat yellow">the
practical reason for not doing
this</span>, I can not find a
code reference preventing our
proposed location for the battery
and load center. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is for an
off-grid new construction home
with the PV equipment in the
garage, using a Sol-Ark 15k and
Discover Rack Mount batteries. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Any input?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Aloha,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Lou
Russo </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Owner</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="mailto:lou@spreesolarsystems.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lou@spreesolarsystems.com</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Office
- 808 345 6762</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Spree
Solar Systems LLC </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">CT-34322</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
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