<p dir="ltr">My understanding of code is that all circuits need to be protected from physical damage. It's the same with AC circuits in an unfinished garage..can't have exposed romex under 8' in that scenario either.</p>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br>    </div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 18, 2025, 8:34 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

  
    
  
  <div>
    <p>Well, I think if wiring of a ground mounted system looks like a
      jungle gym, then something is wrong.<br>
    </p>
    <div>On 2/18/2025 11:32 AM, Glenn wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div dir="auto">
        <div>Rarely are AC electrical circuits and equipment placed
          adjacent to a residence in a cleared field where there may be
          children thinking it looks like a jungle gym either...</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">-Glenn</div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 18, 2025 11:23, Christopher
          Warfel via RE-wrenches
          <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> wrote:<br type="attribution">
          <blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div>
              <p>I think the 8' rule for this is a little bizarre. I can
                have ac circuits lower than 8' all through my basement,
                attic and so forth, but this barrier requirement for dc
                conductors that have robust jackets and no exposed live
                connections has been hard to justify.  Christopher
                Warfel <br>
              </p>
              <div>On 2/18/2025 12:25 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote>
                <div>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Tyrone:</span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">You raise an
                      excellent point.  <a href="https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/18%20Wire_shielding_on_ground_mounted_PV_arrays/Wire_shielding_on_ground_mounts.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Wire guarding is required
                        on ground mount arrays</a>, although the
                      language is vague and the industry does not
                      provide many hardware solutions.  Also, in our
                      area the <a href="https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/18%20Wire_shielding_on_ground_mounted_PV_arrays/SLO_County.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">enforcement</a> of the
                      code on this practice is non-existent.  I suspect
                      this is true in many regions.  Improvements need
                      to be made.</span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">William
                      Miller</span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Miller Solar</span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">17395 Oak Road,
                      Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">CA Lic. 773985</span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                  <p><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'"> Tyrone Houck
                      [mailto:<a href="mailto:tyronehouck@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tyronehouck@gmail.com</a>]
                      <br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 17, 2025 8:59 PM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">william@millersolar.com</a>;
                      RE-wrenches<br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] RSS: Is it
                      necessary?</span></p>
                  <p> </p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p>As far as ground mounted arrays are concerned
                        there is one clear protection mandated by the
                        NEC-the requirement for protection from physical
                        damage for all conductors under 8'.. although
                        this isn't as specific or redundant as rapid
                        shutdown requirements, it typically means
                        conduit or at least some kind of physical
                        barrier with the intention often referenced as
                        protection for children or other unqualified
                        personnel. Not sure if that fits into the point
                        you were making but it seems worth mentioning.</p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p>Sunny Regards,</p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p>Tyrone Houck</p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p>Oregon Solarworks LLC </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p>CCB #204937 LRT #076</p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p>541-787-1366 </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p><a href="mailto:tyrone@oregonsolarworks.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tyrone@oregonsolarworks.com</a></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p><br>
                            </p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p> </p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p>On Mon, Feb 17, 2025, 8:42 PM William Miller
                        via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                        wrote:</p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Rebekah:</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Thank you for
                              your post.</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">I have looked
                              at UL3741 over and over.  Here is what I
                              have gleaned:  After module level RSS was
                              mandated there was a reevaluation of what
                              voltages were actually dangerous for
                              firefighters to be exposed to.  It turns
                              out 80 VDC is not dangerous and, given all
                              of the circumstances for firefighters,
                              exposure to voltages that are much higher
                              is safe enough.  For some reason I have
                              not yet grasped, all of the components
                              need to be matched and tested to achieve
                              the hallowed UL3741 rating.</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Module level
                              RSS would have presented a big enough
                              upheaval in the industry if the equipment
                              needed to comply was safe and reliable. 
                              There is evidence that in many cases it
                              may not be, and that amplifies the
                              skepticism many feel about the current
                              solutions, and frankly, any future
                              solutions.</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">It appears
                              the code making panel, when writing the
                              original module level RSS requirements,
                              may have been a bit “chicken little” about
                              the need for RSS.  This presents a real
                              credibility issue for code makers.  You
                              are seeing that credibility problem
                              reflected in the discussions here on this
                              forum.  Given the back-peddling, how can
                              we understand and believe what is really
                              necessary?</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Forgive me
                              for being skeptical, but why is it that
                              systems with components that have been
                              tested together are demonstrably safer
                              than any collection of high quality
                              components installed carefully and
                              competently?</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">In my mind
                              there is another disconnect here (pun
                              intended):  I can put high voltage, arc
                              producing and sustaining wiring on a
                              residential roof or free-standing rack and
                              not be required to protect that wiring in
                              any specific manner.  If I were to install
                              a 240VAC, over-current protected and
                              de-energizeable air conditioning feeder
                              without conduit, I would be red-tagged in
                              a hot second.  It may be that
                              fire-fighters in protective clothing can
                              withstand voltage above 80VDC, but can
                              children not wearing protective “turn-out”
                              clothing?  Children mess around on roofs
                              and underneath ground-mount arrays.  Why
                              is the NEC not protecting them by
                              mandating specific, listed and tested wire
                              management and guarding systems?</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Thank you
                              very much and I look forward to your
                              reply.</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Sincerely,</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">William
                              Miller</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Miller Solar</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">17395 Oak Road,
                              Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">CA Lic. 773985</span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'"> RE-wrenches
                              [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
                              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rebekah Hren via
                              RE-wrenches<br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 17, 2025
                              10:26 AM<br>
                              <b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
                              <b>Cc:</b> Rebekah Hren<br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] RSS: Is
                              it necessary?</span></p>
                          <p> </p>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p>I read the wrenches post regularly, as
                                does Brian Mehalic. We have both been on
                                CMP-4  (responsible for Article 690) for
                                the past three code cycles. I believe a
                                few other CMP members probably read too.
                                The International Association of
                                Firefighters <span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:black">("largest and
                                  most influential labor unions in North
                                  America"</span><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif'">) is </span>represented on
                                CMP-4 and yes they do have had a lot to
                                say about this issue. </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p>This is definitely not the first time
                                we have heard that certain RS devices
                                are on balance causing more trouble than
                                they are curing  - though on the other
                                hand some manufacturers have certainly
                                figured out how to make safe and
                                effective MLPE. </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p><br>
                                I'm a big fan of UL3741, I have been on
                                that UL technical committee for about 5
                                years, and it is the best approach I see
                                to expand both off-grid and
                                grid-interactive solutions that don't
                                require MLPE for RS. SMA for example is
                                very present and working hard at
                                revisions on that standard right now. At
                                this point I can't see us having any
                                luck in removing 690.12 requirements,
                                except perhaps to replace the inside the
                                array boundary voltage limit with only
                                option as 3741 listing). So please keep
                                asking manufacturers (inverter/rack) to
                                pay attention to UL3741 and design
                                products to meet the standard. </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p>Best </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p>Rebekah</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p><span style="color:#999999">Licensed
                                        Electrical Contractor<br>
                                        NABCEP Certified Solar PV
                                        Installation Professional™
                                        091209-85</span></p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="color:#999999">Tel:
                                          336.266.8800</span></p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <p> </p>
                          </div>
                          <p> </p>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p>On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 10:59 AM Amos
                                Post via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                                wrote:</p>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5pt">
                              <div>
                                <p>Seems like there has been talk of
                                  rescinding RSD requirements before on
                                  this forum.  It also seems that it
                                  might gain some traction if a
                                  dedicated group of installers spoke up
                                  to the right people (Code Making Panel
                                  for instance) and put some time into
                                  it.   I agree that at the very least
                                  we need reliable RSD equipment, and my
                                  preference would be less vs more.</p>
                                <div>
                                  <p> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p>Does anybody know if any sort of
                                    RSD is being required in Europe (not
                                    that we follow their electrical
                                    codes/ideas…just curious)???</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p> </p>
                                  <div>
                                    <p><img border="0" width="113" height="59"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'helvetica','sans-serif';color:black"><br>
                                        <br>
                                               Amos Post<br>
                                           Integrity Energy<br>
                                          W 802.763.7023<br>
                                           C 802.291.2188<br>
                                            </span><a href="http://www.ienergyvt.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'helvetica','sans-serif';color:black;text-decoration:none">ienergyVT.com</span></a></p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'helvetica','sans-serif';color:black"> 
                                                <a href="https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Facebook</a></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
                                    <div>
                                      <p>On Feb 17, 2025, at 12:30 PM,
                                        david quattro via RE-wrenches
                                        <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                                        wrote:</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <p> </p>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p>It seems anecdotal until it
                                            happens to you.</p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p>    My mention of civil
                                            disobedience has been
                                            answered clearly with a “No”
                                            in this forum, and I'm fine
                                            to hear that.</p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p>   I'll clarify a few
                                            points as to why I honestly
                                            think RSD has been a huge
                                            and costly mistake. I
                                            genuinely think RSD
                                            requirements should be
                                            terminated immediately. If
                                            the technology were more
                                            robust and if it worked
                                            consistently I wouldn't
                                            protest. But <b>all</b> the
                                            products I've tried have
                                            been trouble.</p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p>   William, respectfully
                                            your analogy to seat belts
                                            is not an appropriate
                                            comparison to Rapid
                                            Shutdown. Seat-belts were
                                            required in all new cars
                                            starting in 1968 because
                                            there was statistical
                                            evidence supporting their
                                            tremendous efficacy in
                                            saving human life. Currently
                                            seat belts save about 15,000
                                            lives per year.</p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p>    Contrasting to RSD: was
                                            implemented because of the
                                            following paranoid fairytale
                                            scenario - “A firefighter is
                                            on a burning solar roof in
                                            the daytime, and wearing a
                                            metal axe at their hip. the
                                            poor guy/gal falls into live
                                            solar glass, and shatters
                                            it. The fall is so forceful
                                            that the heavy-duty
                                            fireman’s suit is punctured.
                                            Electricity conducts through
                                            the axe blade, through the
                                            suit, contacts the skin, and
                                            a DC circuit is completed
                                            through their body.”</p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p>   As far as I know, this
                                            has never happened once
                                            anywhere on earth. Let’s be
                                            honest - this scenario has
                                            an incredibly low chance of
                                            ever happening in all the
                                            future of humanity. So
                                            considering that RSD has
                                            never helped anyone yet, and
                                            probably never will... How
                                            many fires can be attributed
                                            to RSD? How much property
                                            damage has occurred because
                                            of these fires?</p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p>        <span style="font-family:'helveticaneue','serif';border:none 1pt;padding:0in">The
                                              best path to safety for
                                              firefighters </span><span style="font-family:'helveticaneue','serif'">is by preventing fire
                                              disasters in the first
                                              place.  Fires spread. Any
                                              fire that happens
                                              endangers property owners,
                                              tenants, business owners,
                                              neighbors, shoppers,
                                              bystanders, nearby
                                              forests, etc.  RSD
                                              manufacturers aren't doing
                                              a good job right now, so
                                              we are seeing low quality
                                              unreliable electronics on
                                              the roof. I will stick my
                                              neck out and admit that
                                              installers are not always
                                              perfect. Humans make
                                              mistakes - sometimes in
                                              initial construction, and
                                              sometimes during repair
                                              and maintenance (i.e. when
                                              hunting down failed RSD's
                                              which happens far more
                                              than it should).</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p><span style="font-family:'helveticaneue','serif'">   At this time, these
                                              devices are not being
                                              designed to withstand
                                              reality. When problems
                                              happen, manufacturers are
                                              quibbling. They ignore you
                                              until you go away, or
                                              until you sue them.</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p><span style="font-family:'helveticaneue','serif';border:none 1pt;padding:0in"> 
                                                This level of "safety"
                                              is not important, and in
                                              fact RSD is causing fires
                                              every year.</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p> </p>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p>On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at
                                              11:38 AM William Miller
                                              <<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">william@millersolar.com</a>> wrote:</p>
                                          </div>
                                          <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">David, Ray:</span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">I have not
                                                    had any problems
                                                    with the Tigo RSS
                                                    equipment I have
                                                    installed and I have
                                                    had minimal problems
                                                    with optimizers and
                                                    micro-inverters
                                                    (which are also RSS
                                                    equipment). 
                                                    Apparently others
                                                    have had failures. 
                                                    We don’t know
                                                    statically how
                                                    serious this problem
                                                    is—the posts here
                                                    are purely
                                                    anecdotal.</span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">We also have
                                                    not heard from the
                                                    other side of the
                                                    debate: the fire
                                                    fighters.  </span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Based on lack
                                                    of verifiable
                                                    information I can
                                                    not personally
                                                    conclude that RSS is
                                                    all problem and no
                                                    benefit.</span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">To declare
                                                    that the concept is
                                                    flawed because the
                                                    equipment available
                                                    is not reliable is
                                                    like saying we
                                                    should not be
                                                    required to install
                                                    airbags because a
                                                    bad batch of them
                                                    was manufactured. 
                                                    We are seeing
                                                    problems with the
                                                    equipment needed to
                                                    implement a safety
                                                    requirement.  That
                                                    observation does not
                                                    logically conclude
                                                    the safety
                                                    requirement is not
                                                    valuable.</span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">I hesitate to
                                                    dismiss any safety
                                                    requirement out of
                                                    hand.  Safety
                                                    systems are designed
                                                    to save lives and
                                                    protect from injury,
                                                    and most of them
                                                    do.  I am glad to
                                                    have anti-lock
                                                    brakes, smoke
                                                    detectors and air
                                                    bags.   I have also
                                                    found it quite handy
                                                    to initiate RSS to
                                                    allow me to work
                                                    more safely on solar
                                                    circuits.</span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Does anyone
                                                    on this installers
                                                    forum have contacts
                                                    in the fire-response
                                                    community that can
                                                    comment on the their
                                                    side of the issue? 
                                                    If RSD is really
                                                    necessary for
                                                    safety, then I will
                                                    do my best to
                                                    install good
                                                    equipment properly
                                                    and hold
                                                    manufacturers
                                                    accountable for
                                                    shoddy solutions. 
                                                    If RSD is not that
                                                    effective we need to
                                                    discuss undoing the
                                                    code requirements.</span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Sincerely,</span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">William
                                                    Miller</span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Miller Solar</span></p>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">17395 Oak Road,
                                                    Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
                                                <p><span style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">CA Lic. 773985</span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'"> RE-wrenches
                                                    [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
                                                    <b>On Behalf Of </b>david
                                                    quattro via
                                                    RE-wrenches<br>
                                                    <b>Sent:</b>
                                                    Saturday, February
                                                    15, 2025 6:05 AM<br>
                                                    <b>To:</b>
                                                    RE-wrenches<br>
                                                    <b>Cc:</b> david
                                                    quattro<br>
                                                    <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                                    [RE-wrenches] Tigo
                                                    inverter experience</span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p> </p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p>RSD is the worst
                                                    thing to happen to
                                                    solar. Has anyone
                                                    considered civil
                                                    disobedience?</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p>    I wonder what
                                                    would happen if all
                                                    the installers
                                                    banded together and
                                                    refused, as a united
                                                    industry
                                                    ‘brotherhood.’ WE
                                                    are the ones stuck
                                                    with the bullshit in
                                                    the aftermath.</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p>     I’m not being
                                                    snarky here , this a
                                                    genuine question to
                                                    the group:   Does
                                                    anyone have <u>good</u>
                                                    experience with RSD?
                                                      i.e. you’re really
                                                    glad RSD was there,
                                                    and you genuinely
                                                    feel safer?  you’re
                                                    glad and happy to
                                                    comply with this
                                                    code and you look
                                                    forward to
                                                    continuing to use
                                                    RSD for the rest of
                                                    your career?</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p> </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p> </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p> </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p> </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p>On Fri, Feb 14,
                                                        2025 at 3:40 PM
                                                        Ray Walters via
                                                        RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                                                        wrote:</p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5pt;border-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p>it seems
                                                          silly that we
                                                          are required
                                                          to install
                                                          these extra
                                                          pieces of
                                                          equipment for
                                                          added
                                                          "safety", that
                                                          are actually a
                                                          fire hazard on
                                                          the roof. 
                                                          Just to survey
                                                          again: how
                                                          many homes
                                                          have been
                                                          saved by RSD? 
                                                          How many fire
                                                          fighters have
                                                          actually
                                                          actuated the
                                                          RSD system, so
                                                          that they
                                                          could hack
                                                          through the
                                                          array to vent
                                                          the roof?  </p>
                                                        <p>I think it
                                                          should only be
                                                          required if
                                                          you have
                                                          covered so
                                                          much of the
                                                          roof with PV,
                                                          that the fire
                                                          dept can't
                                                          access
                                                          uncovered roof
                                                          to do their
                                                          venting.  The
                                                          whole premise
                                                          of RSD is
                                                          flawed.  IMHO,
                                                          its just
                                                          another effort
                                                          to block the
                                                          wider adoption
                                                          of solar.   </p>
                                                        <p>When it comes
                                                          to off grid,
                                                          RSD causes
                                                          such a
                                                          decrease in
                                                          reliability to
                                                          amount to a
                                                          decrease in
                                                          safety, due to
                                                          possible loss
                                                          of
                                                          communications,
                                                          water, and
                                                          heat.  Add the
                                                          fire hazard
                                                          and RSD is
                                                          really not
                                                          making our
                                                          customers'
                                                          lives better.
                                                        </p>
                                                        <p>Ray Walters<br>
                                                          Remote Solar</p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </blockquote>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
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                                  <p> </p>
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                              <p style="margin-bottom:12pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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    <pre cols="72">-- 
Christopher Warfel, PE
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
(401) 447-5773</pre>
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