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<p>I think the 8' rule for this is a little bizarre. I can have ac
circuits lower than 8' all through my basement, attic and so
forth, but this barrier requirement for dc conductors that have
robust jackets and no exposed live connections has been hard to
justify. Christopher Warfel <br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/18/2025 12:25 AM, William Miller
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:c38a16e1261bfbc57572b65bf68d87c4@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Tyrone:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">You
raise an excellent point. <a
href="https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/18%20Wire_shielding_on_ground_mounted_PV_arrays/Wire_shielding_on_ground_mounts.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">Wire guarding is required on ground
mount arrays</a>, although the language is vague and the
industry does not provide many hardware solutions. Also, in
our area the <a
href="https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/18%20Wire_shielding_on_ground_mounted_PV_arrays/SLO_County.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">enforcement</a> of the code on this
practice is non-existent. I suspect this is true in many
regions. Improvements need to be made.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William
Miller</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller
Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA
Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Tyrone Houck [mailto:<a href="mailto:tyronehouck@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tyronehouck@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 17, 2025 8:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">william@millersolar.com</a>;
RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] RSS: Is it necessary?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As far as ground mounted arrays are
concerned there is one clear protection mandated by the
NEC-the requirement for protection from physical damage
for all conductors under 8'.. although this isn't as
specific or redundant as rapid shutdown requirements, it
typically means conduit or at least some kind of physical
barrier with the intention often referenced as protection
for children or other unqualified personnel. Not sure if
that fits into the point you were making but it seems
worth mentioning.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sunny Regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tyrone Houck</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Oregon Solarworks LLC </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">CCB #204937 LRT #076</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">541-787-1366 </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="mailto:tyrone@oregonsolarworks.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tyrone@oregonsolarworks.com</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Feb 17, 2025, 8:42 PM William
Miller via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Rebekah:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thank
you for your post.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
have looked at UL3741 over and over. Here is what I
have gleaned: After module level RSS was mandated
there was a reevaluation of what voltages were
actually dangerous for firefighters to be exposed
to. It turns out 80 VDC is not dangerous and, given
all of the circumstances for firefighters, exposure
to voltages that are much higher is safe enough.
For some reason I have not yet grasped, all of the
components need to be matched and tested to achieve
the hallowed UL3741 rating.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Module
level RSS would have presented a big enough upheaval
in the industry if the equipment needed to comply
was safe and reliable. There is evidence that in
many cases it may not be, and that amplifies the
skepticism many feel about the current solutions,
and frankly, any future solutions.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It
appears the code making panel, when writing the
original module level RSS requirements, may have
been a bit “chicken little” about the need for RSS.
This presents a real credibility issue for code
makers. You are seeing that credibility problem
reflected in the discussions here on this forum.
Given the back-peddling, how can we understand and
believe what is really necessary?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Forgive
me for being skeptical, but why is it that systems
with components that have been tested together are
demonstrably safer than any collection of high
quality components installed carefully and
competently?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In
my mind there is another disconnect here (pun
intended): I can put high voltage, arc producing
and sustaining wiring on a residential roof or
free-standing rack and not be required to protect
that wiring in any specific manner. If I were to
install a 240VAC, over-current protected and
de-energizeable air conditioning feeder without
conduit, I would be red-tagged in a hot second. It
may be that fire-fighters in protective clothing can
withstand voltage above 80VDC, but can children not
wearing protective “turn-out” clothing? Children
mess around on roofs and underneath ground-mount
arrays. Why is the NEC not protecting them by
mandating specific, listed and tested wire
management and guarding systems?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thank
you very much and I look forward to your reply.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sincerely,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William
Miller</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller
Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA
Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rebekah Hren via RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 17, 2025 10:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Rebekah Hren<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] RSS: Is it
necessary?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I read the
wrenches post regularly, as does Brian Mehalic. We
have both been on CMP-4 (responsible for Article
690) for the past three code cycles. I believe a
few other CMP members probably read too. The
International Association of Firefighters <span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">("largest
and most influential labor unions in North
America"</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">) is </span>represented
on CMP-4 and yes they do have had a lot to say
about this issue. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">This is
definitely not the first time we have heard that
certain RS devices are on balance causing more
trouble than they are curing - though on the
other hand some manufacturers have certainly
figured out how to make safe and effective MLPE. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
I'm a big fan of UL3741, I have been on that UL
technical committee for about 5 years, and it is
the best approach I see to expand both off-grid
and grid-interactive solutions that don't require
MLPE for RS. SMA for example is very present and
working hard at revisions on that standard right
now. At this point I can't see us having any luck
in removing 690.12 requirements, except perhaps to
replace the inside the array boundary voltage
limit with only option as 3741 listing). So please
keep asking manufacturers (inverter/rack) to pay
attention to UL3741 and design products to meet
the standard. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Best </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Rebekah</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:#999999">Licensed Electrical
Contractor<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation
Professional™ 091209-85</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:#999999">Tel: 336.266.8800</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Mon, Feb
17, 2025 at 10:59 AM Amos Post via RE-wrenches
<<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Seems like
there has been talk of rescinding RSD
requirements before on this forum. It also
seems that it might gain some traction if a
dedicated group of installers spoke up to the
right people (Code Making Panel for instance)
and put some time into it. I agree that at the
very least we need reliable RSD equipment, and
my preference would be less vs more.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Does anybody
know if any sort of RSD is being required in
Europe (not that we follow their electrical
codes/ideas…just curious)???</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><img
border="0" width="113" height="59"
id="m_-7191639740359634369m_-78752451081832654705E3CDBF2-9A7B-4432-9A58-B62B79D887FE"
src="cid:part1.D6U9s2lj.GXZAMxvd@entech-engineering.com" class=""><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
<br>
Amos Post<br>
Integrity Energy<br>
W 802.763.7023<br>
C 802.291.2188<br>
</span><a
href="http://www.ienergyvt.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black;text-decoration:none">ienergyVT.com</span></a></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">
<a
href="https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Facebook</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Feb 17,
2025, at 12:30 PM, david quattro via
RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">It seems
anecdotal until it happens to you.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> My
mention of civil disobedience has been
answered clearly with a “No” in this
forum, and I'm fine to hear that.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> I'll
clarify a few points as to why I
honestly think RSD has been a huge and
costly mistake. I genuinely think RSD
requirements should be terminated
immediately. If the technology were
more robust and if it worked
consistently I wouldn't protest. But <b>all</b>
the products I've tried have been
trouble.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> William,
respectfully your analogy to seat
belts is not an appropriate comparison
to Rapid Shutdown. Seat-belts were
required in all new cars starting in
1968 because there was statistical
evidence supporting their tremendous
efficacy in saving human life.
Currently seat belts save about 15,000
lives per year.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">
Contrasting to RSD: was implemented
because of the following paranoid
fairytale scenario - “A firefighter is
on a burning solar roof in the
daytime, and wearing a metal axe at
their hip. the poor guy/gal falls into
live solar glass, and shatters it. The
fall is so forceful that the
heavy-duty fireman’s suit is
punctured. Electricity conducts
through the axe blade, through the
suit, contacts the skin, and a DC
circuit is completed through their
body.”</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> As far as
I know, this has never happened once
anywhere on earth. Let’s be honest -
this scenario has an incredibly low
chance of ever happening in all the
future of humanity. So considering
that RSD has never helped anyone yet,
and probably never will... How many
fires can be attributed to RSD? How
much property damage has occurred
because of these fires?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <span
style="font-family:"helveticaneue","serif";border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">The
best path to safety for
firefighters </span><span
style="font-family:"helveticaneue","serif"">is by
preventing fire disasters in the
first place. Fires spread. Any fire
that happens endangers property
owners, tenants, business owners,
neighbors, shoppers, bystanders,
nearby forests, etc. RSD
manufacturers aren't doing a good
job right now, so we are seeing low
quality unreliable electronics on
the roof. I will stick my neck out
and admit that installers are not
always perfect. Humans make mistakes
- sometimes in initial construction,
and sometimes during repair and
maintenance (i.e. when hunting down
failed RSD's which happens far more
than it should).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"helveticaneue","serif""> At
this time, these devices are not
being designed to withstand reality.
When problems happen, manufacturers
are quibbling. They ignore you until
you go away, or until you sue them.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"helveticaneue","serif";border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">
This level of "safety" is not
important, and in fact RSD is
causing fires every year.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Sat, Feb
15, 2025 at 11:38 AM William Miller
<<a
href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">william@millersolar.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">David,
Ray:</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
have not had any problems with
the Tigo RSS equipment I have
installed and I have had
minimal problems with
optimizers and micro-inverters
(which are also RSS
equipment). Apparently others
have had failures. We don’t
know statically how serious
this problem is—the posts here
are purely anecdotal.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">We
also have not heard from the
other side of the debate: the
fire fighters. </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Based
on lack of verifiable
information I can not
personally conclude that RSS
is all problem and no benefit.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">To
declare that the concept is
flawed because the equipment
available is not reliable is
like saying we should not be
required to install airbags
because a bad batch of them
was manufactured. We are
seeing problems with the
equipment needed to implement
a safety requirement. That
observation does not logically
conclude the safety
requirement is not valuable.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
hesitate to dismiss any safety
requirement out of hand.
Safety systems are designed to
save lives and protect from
injury, and most of them do.
I am glad to have anti-lock
brakes, smoke detectors and
air bags. I have also found
it quite handy to initiate RSS
to allow me to work more
safely on solar circuits.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Does
anyone on this installers
forum have contacts in the
fire-response community that
can comment on the their side
of the issue? If RSD is
really necessary for safety,
then I will do my best to
install good equipment
properly and hold
manufacturers accountable for
shoddy solutions. If RSD is
not that effective we need to
discuss undoing the code
requirements.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sincerely,</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William
Miller</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller
Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA
Lic. 773985</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>david
quattro via RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday,
February 15, 2025 6:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Cc:</b> david quattro<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter
experience</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">RSD is the
worst thing to happen to
solar. Has anyone considered
civil disobedience?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> I wonder
what would happen if all the
installers banded together and
refused, as a united industry
‘brotherhood.’ WE are the ones
stuck with the bullshit in the
aftermath.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> I’m not
being snarky here , this a
genuine question to the group:
Does anyone have <u>good</u>
experience with RSD? i.e.
you’re really glad RSD was
there, and you genuinely feel
safer? you’re glad and happy
to comply with this code and
you look forward to continuing
to use RSD for the rest of
your career?</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Fri, Feb
14, 2025 at 3:40 PM Ray
Walters via RE-wrenches
<<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<p>it seems silly that we
are required to install
these extra pieces of
equipment for added
"safety", that are
actually a fire hazard
on the roof. Just to
survey again: how many
homes have been saved by
RSD? How many fire
fighters have actually
actuated the RSD system,
so that they could hack
through the array to
vent the roof? </p>
<p>I think it should only
be required if you have
covered so much of the
roof with PV, that the
fire dept can't access
uncovered roof to do
their venting. The
whole premise of RSD is
flawed. IMHO, its just
another effort to block
the wider adoption of
solar. </p>
<p>When it comes to off
grid, RSD causes such a
decrease in reliability
to amount to a decrease
in safety, due to
possible loss of
communications, water,
and heat. Add the fire
hazard and RSD is really
not making our
customers' lives better.
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
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<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Christopher Warfel, PE
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
(401) 447-5773</pre>
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