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    <p>Is there a NEC reference for that you know of?, as I see Romex
      brought down to switches very often, and I've not found a
      reference prohibiting that.  As far as a ground mounted solar
      system being climbed on, anything is possible, but hopefully trees
      are of more interest.  Thank you, Chris<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/18/2025 11:38 AM, Tyrone Houck
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAEqH54mio3gHwPBAgYvZPCBFfKE_zePGzVxsUCaqSEsa56C-Pg@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <p dir="ltr">My understanding of code is that all circuits need to
        be protected from physical damage. It's the same with AC
        circuits in an unfinished garage..can't have exposed romex under
        8' in that scenario either.</p>
      <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br>
            </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 18, 2025, 8:34 AM
          Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <<a
            href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <p>Well, I think if wiring of a ground mounted system looks
              like a jungle gym, then something is wrong.<br>
            </p>
            <div>On 2/18/2025 11:32 AM, Glenn wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="auto">
                <div>Rarely are AC electrical circuits and equipment
                  placed adjacent to a residence in a cleared field
                  where there may be children thinking it looks like a
                  jungle gym either...</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">-Glenn</div>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                <div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 18, 2025 11:23,
                  Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <a
                    href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
                    target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                    moz-do-not-send="true"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a>
                  wrote:<br type="attribution">
                  <blockquote
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                    <div>
                      <p>I think the 8' rule for this is a little
                        bizarre. I can have ac circuits lower than 8'
                        all through my basement, attic and so forth, but
                        this barrier requirement for dc conductors that
                        have robust jackets and no exposed live
                        connections has been hard to justify. 
                        Christopher Warfel <br>
                      </p>
                      <div>On 2/18/2025 12:25 AM, William Miller via
                        RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote>
                        <div>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Tyrone:</span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">You raise an
                              excellent point.  <a
href="https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/18%20Wire_shielding_on_ground_mounted_PV_arrays/Wire_shielding_on_ground_mounts.html"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">Wire guarding is
                                required on ground mount arrays</a>,
                              although the language is vague and the
                              industry does not provide many hardware
                              solutions.  Also, in our area the <a
href="https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/18%20Wire_shielding_on_ground_mounted_PV_arrays/SLO_County.html"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">enforcement</a>
                              of the code on this practice is
                              non-existent.  I suspect this is true in
                              many regions.  Improvements need to be
                              made.</span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">William Miller</span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Miller Solar</span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">17395 Oak Road,
                              Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"><a
                                href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">CA Lic. 773985</span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                          <p><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'"> Tyrone Houck
                              [mailto:<a
                                href="mailto:tyronehouck@gmail.com"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tyronehouck@gmail.com</a>]
                              <br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 17, 2025
                              8:59 PM<br>
                              <b>To:</b> <a
                                href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"
                                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">william@millersolar.com</a>;
                              RE-wrenches<br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] RSS: Is
                              it necessary?</span></p>
                          <p> </p>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p>As far as ground mounted arrays are
                                concerned there is one clear protection
                                mandated by the NEC-the requirement for
                                protection from physical damage for all
                                conductors under 8'.. although this
                                isn't as specific or redundant as rapid
                                shutdown requirements, it typically
                                means conduit or at least some kind of
                                physical barrier with the intention
                                often referenced as protection for
                                children or other unqualified personnel.
                                Not sure if that fits into the point you
                                were making but it seems worth
                                mentioning.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p>Sunny Regards,</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p>Tyrone Houck</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p>Oregon Solarworks LLC </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p>CCB #204937 LRT #076</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p>541-787-1366 </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p><a
href="mailto:tyrone@oregonsolarworks.com" target="_blank"
                                  rel="noreferrer"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tyrone@oregonsolarworks.com</a></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p><br>
                                    </p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <p> </p>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p>On Mon, Feb 17, 2025, 8:42 PM William
                                Miller via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
                                  rel="noreferrer"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                                wrote:</p>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Rebekah:</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Thank you for
                                      your post.</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">I have looked
                                      at UL3741 over and over.  Here is
                                      what I have gleaned:  After module
                                      level RSS was mandated there was a
                                      reevaluation of what voltages were
                                      actually dangerous for
                                      firefighters to be exposed to.  It
                                      turns out 80 VDC is not dangerous
                                      and, given all of the
                                      circumstances for firefighters,
                                      exposure to voltages that are much
                                      higher is safe enough.  For some
                                      reason I have not yet grasped, all
                                      of the components need to be
                                      matched and tested to achieve the
                                      hallowed UL3741 rating.</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Module level
                                      RSS would have presented a big
                                      enough upheaval in the industry if
                                      the equipment needed to comply was
                                      safe and reliable.  There is
                                      evidence that in many cases it may
                                      not be, and that amplifies the
                                      skepticism many feel about the
                                      current solutions, and frankly,
                                      any future solutions.</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">It appears the
                                      code making panel, when writing
                                      the original module level RSS
                                      requirements, may have been a bit
                                      “chicken little” about the need
                                      for RSS.  This presents a real
                                      credibility issue for code
                                      makers.  You are seeing that
                                      credibility problem reflected in
                                      the discussions here on this
                                      forum.  Given the back-peddling,
                                      how can we understand and believe
                                      what is really necessary?</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Forgive me for
                                      being skeptical, but why is it
                                      that systems with components that
                                      have been tested together are
                                      demonstrably safer than any
                                      collection of high quality
                                      components installed carefully and
                                      competently?</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">In my mind
                                      there is another disconnect here
                                      (pun intended):  I can put high
                                      voltage, arc producing and
                                      sustaining wiring on a residential
                                      roof or free-standing rack and not
                                      be required to protect that wiring
                                      in any specific manner.  If I were
                                      to install a 240VAC, over-current
                                      protected and de-energizeable air
                                      conditioning feeder without
                                      conduit, I would be red-tagged in
                                      a hot second.  It may be that
                                      fire-fighters in protective
                                      clothing can withstand voltage
                                      above 80VDC, but can children not
                                      wearing protective “turn-out”
                                      clothing?  Children mess around on
                                      roofs and underneath ground-mount
                                      arrays.  Why is the NEC not
                                      protecting them by mandating
                                      specific, listed and tested wire
                                      management and guarding systems?</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Thank you very
                                      much and I look forward to your
                                      reply.</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Sincerely,</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">William Miller</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Miller Solar</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">17395 Oak Road,
                                      Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">CA Lic. 773985</span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                  <p><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'"> RE-wrenches
                                      [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
                                        rel="noreferrer"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
                                      <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rebekah Hren
                                      via RE-wrenches<br>
                                      <b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 17,
                                      2025 10:26 AM<br>
                                      <b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
                                      <b>Cc:</b> Rebekah Hren<br>
                                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches]
                                      RSS: Is it necessary?</span></p>
                                  <p> </p>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p>I read the wrenches post
                                        regularly, as does Brian
                                        Mehalic. We have both been on
                                        CMP-4  (responsible for Article
                                        690) for the past three code
                                        cycles. I believe a few other
                                        CMP members probably read too.
                                        The International Association of
                                        Firefighters <span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:black">("largest and most
                                          influential labor unions in
                                          North America"</span><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif'">) is </span>represented on
                                        CMP-4 and yes they do have had a
                                        lot to say about this issue. </p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p> </p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p>This is definitely not the
                                        first time we have heard that
                                        certain RS devices are on
                                        balance causing more trouble
                                        than they are curing  - though
                                        on the other hand some
                                        manufacturers have certainly
                                        figured out how to make safe and
                                        effective MLPE. </p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p><br>
                                        I'm a big fan of UL3741, I have
                                        been on that UL technical
                                        committee for about 5 years, and
                                        it is the best approach I see to
                                        expand both off-grid and
                                        grid-interactive solutions that
                                        don't require MLPE for RS. SMA
                                        for example is very present and
                                        working hard at revisions on
                                        that standard right now. At this
                                        point I can't see us having any
                                        luck in removing 690.12
                                        requirements, except perhaps to
                                        replace the inside the array
                                        boundary voltage limit with only
                                        option as 3741 listing). So
                                        please keep asking manufacturers
                                        (inverter/rack) to pay attention
                                        to UL3741 and design products to
                                        meet the standard. </p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p> </p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p>Best </p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p>Rebekah</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p><span
                                                style="color:#999999">Licensed
                                                Electrical Contractor<br>
                                                NABCEP Certified Solar
                                                PV Installation
                                                Professional™ 091209-85</span></p>
                                            <div>
                                              <p
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="color:#999999">Tel: 336.266.8800</span></p>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <p> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <p> </p>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p>On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at
                                        10:59 AM Amos Post via
                                        RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
                                          rel="noreferrer"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                                        wrote:</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                      <div>
                                        <p>Seems like there has been
                                          talk of rescinding RSD
                                          requirements before on this
                                          forum.  It also seems that it
                                          might gain some traction if a
                                          dedicated group of installers
                                          spoke up to the right people
                                          (Code Making Panel for
                                          instance) and put some time
                                          into it.   I agree that at the
                                          very least we need reliable
                                          RSD equipment, and my
                                          preference would be less vs
                                          more.</p>
                                        <div>
                                          <p> </p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p>Does anybody know if any
                                            sort of RSD is being
                                            required in Europe (not that
                                            we follow their electrical
                                            codes/ideas…just curious)???</p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p> </p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p> </p>
                                          <div>
                                            <p><img border="0"
                                                width="113" height="59"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'helvetica','sans-serif';color:black"><br>
                                                <br>
                                                       Amos Post<br>
                                                   Integrity Energy<br>
                                                  W 802.763.7023<br>
                                                   C 802.291.2188<br>
                                                    </span><a
href="http://www.ienergyvt.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'helvetica','sans-serif';color:black;text-decoration:none">ienergyVT.com</span></a></p>
                                            <div>
                                              <p><span
style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'helvetica','sans-serif';color:black"> 
                                                        <a
href="https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl"
                                                    target="_blank"
                                                    rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Facebook</a></span></p>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p
                                              style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
                                            <div>
                                              <p>On Feb 17, 2025, at
                                                12:30 PM, david quattro
                                                via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
                                                  rel="noreferrer"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                                                wrote:</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <p> </p>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p>It seems anecdotal
                                                    until it happens to
                                                    you.</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p>    My mention of
                                                    civil disobedience
                                                    has been answered
                                                    clearly with a “No”
                                                    in this forum, and
                                                    I'm fine to hear
                                                    that.</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p>   I'll clarify a
                                                    few points as to why
                                                    I honestly think RSD
                                                    has been a huge and
                                                    costly mistake. I
                                                    genuinely think RSD
                                                    requirements should
                                                    be terminated
                                                    immediately. If the
                                                    technology were more
                                                    robust and if it
                                                    worked consistently
                                                    I wouldn't protest.
                                                    But <b>all</b> the
                                                    products I've tried
                                                    have been trouble.</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p>   William,
                                                    respectfully your
                                                    analogy to seat
                                                    belts is not an
                                                    appropriate
                                                    comparison to Rapid
                                                    Shutdown. Seat-belts
                                                    were required in all
                                                    new cars starting in
                                                    1968 because there
                                                    was statistical
                                                    evidence supporting
                                                    their tremendous
                                                    efficacy in saving
                                                    human life.
                                                    Currently seat belts
                                                    save about 15,000
                                                    lives per year.</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p>    Contrasting to
                                                    RSD: was implemented
                                                    because of the
                                                    following paranoid
                                                    fairytale scenario -
                                                    “A firefighter is on
                                                    a burning solar roof
                                                    in the daytime, and
                                                    wearing a metal axe
                                                    at their hip. the
                                                    poor guy/gal falls
                                                    into live solar
                                                    glass, and shatters
                                                    it. The fall is so
                                                    forceful that the
                                                    heavy-duty fireman’s
                                                    suit is punctured.
                                                    Electricity conducts
                                                    through the axe
                                                    blade, through the
                                                    suit, contacts the
                                                    skin, and a DC
                                                    circuit is completed
                                                    through their body.”</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p>   As far as I
                                                    know, this has never
                                                    happened once
                                                    anywhere on earth.
                                                    Let’s be honest -
                                                    this scenario has an
                                                    incredibly low
                                                    chance of ever
                                                    happening in all the
                                                    future of humanity.
                                                    So considering that
                                                    RSD has never helped
                                                    anyone yet, and
                                                    probably never
                                                    will... How many
                                                    fires can be
                                                    attributed to RSD?
                                                    How much property
                                                    damage has occurred
                                                    because of these
                                                    fires?</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p>        <span
style="font-family:'helveticaneue','serif';border:none 1pt;padding:0in">The
                                                      best path to
                                                      safety for
                                                      firefighters </span><span
style="font-family:'helveticaneue','serif'">is by preventing fire
                                                      disasters in the
                                                      first place. 
                                                      Fires spread. Any
                                                      fire that happens
                                                      endangers property
                                                      owners, tenants,
                                                      business owners,
                                                      neighbors,
                                                      shoppers,
                                                      bystanders, nearby
                                                      forests, etc.  RSD
                                                      manufacturers
                                                      aren't doing a
                                                      good job right
                                                      now, so we are
                                                      seeing low quality
                                                      unreliable
                                                      electronics on the
                                                      roof. I will stick
                                                      my neck out and
                                                      admit that
                                                      installers are not
                                                      always perfect.
                                                      Humans make
                                                      mistakes -
                                                      sometimes in
                                                      initial
                                                      construction, and
                                                      sometimes during
                                                      repair and
                                                      maintenance (i.e.
                                                      when hunting down
                                                      failed RSD's which
                                                      happens far more
                                                      than it should).</span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'helveticaneue','serif'">   At this time, these
                                                      devices are not
                                                      being designed to
                                                      withstand reality.
                                                      When problems
                                                      happen,
                                                      manufacturers are
                                                      quibbling. They
                                                      ignore you until
                                                      you go away, or
                                                      until you sue
                                                      them.</span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p><span
style="font-family:'helveticaneue','serif';border:none 1pt;padding:0in"> 
                                                        This level of
                                                      "safety" is not
                                                      important, and in
                                                      fact RSD is
                                                      causing fires
                                                      every year.</span></p>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p> </p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p> </p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p> </p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p> </p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p> </p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p>On Sat, Feb 15,
                                                      2025 at 11:38 AM
                                                      William Miller
                                                      <<a
href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">william@millersolar.com</a>>
                                                      wrote:</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">David, Ray:</span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">I have not had
                                                          any problems
                                                          with the Tigo
                                                          RSS equipment
                                                          I have
                                                          installed and
                                                          I have had
                                                          minimal
                                                          problems with
                                                          optimizers and
micro-inverters (which are also RSS equipment).  Apparently others have
                                                          had failures. 
                                                          We don’t know
                                                          statically how
                                                          serious this
                                                          problem is—the
                                                          posts here are
                                                          purely
                                                          anecdotal.</span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">We also have
                                                          not heard from
                                                          the other side
                                                          of the debate:
                                                          the fire
                                                          fighters.  </span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Based on lack
                                                          of verifiable
                                                          information I
                                                          can not
                                                          personally
                                                          conclude that
                                                          RSS is all
                                                          problem and no
                                                          benefit.</span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">To declare that
                                                          the concept is
                                                          flawed because
                                                          the equipment
                                                          available is
                                                          not reliable
                                                          is like saying
                                                          we should not
                                                          be required to
                                                          install
                                                          airbags
                                                          because a bad
                                                          batch of them
                                                          was
                                                          manufactured. 
                                                          We are seeing
                                                          problems with
                                                          the equipment
                                                          needed to
                                                          implement a
                                                          safety
                                                          requirement. 
                                                          That
                                                          observation
                                                          does not
                                                          logically
                                                          conclude the
                                                          safety
                                                          requirement is
                                                          not valuable.</span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">I hesitate to
                                                          dismiss any
                                                          safety
                                                          requirement
                                                          out of hand. 
                                                          Safety systems
                                                          are designed
                                                          to save lives
                                                          and protect
                                                          from injury,
                                                          and most of
                                                          them do.  I am
                                                          glad to have
                                                          anti-lock
                                                          brakes, smoke
                                                          detectors and
                                                          air bags.   I
                                                          have also
                                                          found it quite
                                                          handy to
                                                          initiate RSS
                                                          to allow me to
                                                          work more
                                                          safely on
                                                          solar
                                                          circuits.</span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Does anyone on
                                                          this
                                                          installers
                                                          forum have
                                                          contacts in
                                                          the
                                                          fire-response
                                                          community that
                                                          can comment on
                                                          the their side
                                                          of the issue? 
                                                          If RSD is
                                                          really
                                                          necessary for
                                                          safety, then I
                                                          will do my
                                                          best to
                                                          install good
                                                          equipment
                                                          properly and
                                                          hold
                                                          manufacturers
                                                          accountable
                                                          for shoddy
                                                          solutions.  If
                                                          RSD is not
                                                          that effective
                                                          we need to
                                                          discuss
                                                          undoing the
                                                          code
                                                          requirements.</span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Sincerely,</span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">William Miller</span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Miller Solar</span></p>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">17395 Oak Road,
                                                          Atascadero, CA
                                                          93422</span></p>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
                                                        <p><span
style="font-family:'arial','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">CA Lic. 773985</span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span
style="font-family:'verdana','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <p><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'tahoma','sans-serif'"> RE-wrenches
                                                          [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
                                                          <b>On Behalf
                                                          Of </b>david
                                                          quattro via
                                                          RE-wrenches<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>
                                                          Saturday,
                                                          February 15,
                                                          2025 6:05 AM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b>
                                                          RE-wrenches<br>
                                                          <b>Cc:</b>
                                                          david quattro<br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b>
                                                          Re:
                                                          [RE-wrenches]
                                                          Tigo inverter
                                                          experience</span></p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p>RSD is the
                                                          worst thing to
                                                          happen to
                                                          solar. Has
                                                          anyone
                                                          considered
                                                          civil
                                                          disobedience?</p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p>    I
                                                          wonder what
                                                          would happen
                                                          if all the
                                                          installers
                                                          banded
                                                          together and
                                                          refused, as a
                                                          united
                                                          industry
                                                          ‘brotherhood.’
                                                          WE are the
                                                          ones stuck
                                                          with the
                                                          bullshit in
                                                          the aftermath.</p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p>     I’m
                                                          not being
                                                          snarky here ,
                                                          this a genuine
                                                          question to
                                                          the group:  
                                                          Does anyone
                                                          have <u>good</u>
                                                          experience
                                                          with RSD?  
                                                          i.e. you’re
                                                          really glad
                                                          RSD was there,
                                                          and you
                                                          genuinely feel
                                                          safer?  you’re
                                                          glad and happy
                                                          to comply with
                                                          this code and
                                                          you look
                                                          forward to
                                                          continuing to
                                                          use RSD for
                                                          the rest of
                                                          your career?</p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p>On Fri, Feb
                                                          14, 2025 at
                                                          3:40 PM Ray
                                                          Walters via
                                                          RE-wrenches
                                                          <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
                                                          wrote:</p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5pt;border-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p>it seems
                                                          silly that we
                                                          are required
                                                          to install
                                                          these extra
                                                          pieces of
                                                          equipment for
                                                          added
                                                          "safety", that
                                                          are actually a
                                                          fire hazard on
                                                          the roof. 
                                                          Just to survey
                                                          again: how
                                                          many homes
                                                          have been
                                                          saved by RSD? 
                                                          How many fire
                                                          fighters have
                                                          actually
                                                          actuated the
                                                          RSD system, so
                                                          that they
                                                          could hack
                                                          through the
                                                          array to vent
                                                          the roof?  </p>
                                                          <p>I think it
                                                          should only be
                                                          required if
                                                          you have
                                                          covered so
                                                          much of the
                                                          roof with PV,
                                                          that the fire
                                                          dept can't
                                                          access
                                                          uncovered roof
                                                          to do their
                                                          venting.  The
                                                          whole premise
                                                          of RSD is
                                                          flawed.  IMHO,
                                                          its just
                                                          another effort
                                                          to block the
                                                          wider adoption
                                                          of solar.   </p>
                                                          <p>When it
                                                          comes to off
                                                          grid, RSD
                                                          causes such a
                                                          decrease in
                                                          reliability to
                                                          amount to a
                                                          decrease in
                                                          safety, due to
                                                          possible loss
                                                          of
                                                          communications,
                                                          water, and
                                                          heat.  Add the
                                                          fire hazard
                                                          and RSD is
                                                          really not
                                                          making our
                                                          customers'
                                                          lives better.
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p>Ray Walters<br>
                                                          Remote Solar</p>
                                                          </div>
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</pre>
                      </blockquote>
                      <pre>-- 
Christopher Warfel, PE
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
(401) 447-5773</pre>
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                </div>
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              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <pre cols="72">-- 
Christopher Warfel, PE
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
(401) 447-5773</pre>
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    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Christopher Warfel, PE
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
(401) 447-5773</pre>
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