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<p>it seems silly that we are required to install these extra pieces
of equipment for added "safety", that are actually a fire hazard
on the roof. Just to survey again: how many homes have been saved
by RSD? How many fire fighters have actually actuated the RSD
system, so that they could hack through the array to vent the
roof? <br>
</p>
<p>I think it should only be required if you have covered so much of
the roof with PV, that the fire dept can't access uncovered roof
to do their venting. The whole premise of RSD is flawed. IMHO,
its just another effort to block the wider adoption of solar. </p>
<p>When it comes to off grid, RSD causes such a decrease in
reliability to amount to a decrease in safety, due to possible
loss of communications, water, and heat. Add the fire hazard and
RSD is really not making our customers' lives better. <br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/14/2025 3:52 PM, Jason Szumlanski
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE438R89f1ZWnDemaKZyOKGWxofmhbk8Bk_Af=6mYvH2PW4oXA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div><span class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I had a
site (not my install) with a ground rack and these </span><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">TS4-F</span><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> <span
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">units,
and they exhibited the exact same burn characteristics.
At least half of them were burned up to some degree.</span></span><br
clear="all">
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Jason Szumlanski
<div><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP
Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida
State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div>
<div><font color="#333333"
face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Florida
Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at
2:11 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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Hello Nick,</div>
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<div
style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Yes, it's the TS4-F units. We have made every effort
to install to the specs provided (as the goal post and
solutions keep changing) but have still seen RSD's
start to swell and/or burn over time. We've separated
DC wires and home runs and stayed within the home run
complete circuit distance that is recommended. We've
used the "Pure Signal" transmitter solution that syncs
up the signaling from multiple inverters in an effort
to avoid the "chatter" that starts when the RSD is
failing (see video below about that). </div>
<div
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It's all field R&D at our expense in my opinion.
Sadly, I'd be happy if the RSD failed and didn't work
but it starts to work in overdrive until it burns up
and causes an arc. These photos below are from a site
where we got lucky and the fire didn't spread. Below
the photos is a link to a video of Tigo and Mayfield
discussing the crosstalk issue. </div>
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<img size="387727" style="max-width: 1867px;"
src="cid:part1.wrJP2urZ.Dmin3Pkm@solarray.com"
class=""></div>
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style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<img size="367791" style="max-width: 1867px;"
src="cid:part2.AeU2aTOK.dJB5Q5oG@solarray.com"
class=""></div>
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style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
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<img size="437677" style="max-width: 1867px;"
src="cid:part3.M10pqrLs.gi010d9G@solarray.com"
class=""></div>
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<img size="443090" style="max-width: 1867px;"
src="cid:part4.3joB10GG.LqqLIVmv@solarray.com"
class=""></div>
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Here is a video discussion of the cross-talk and
signal corruption issues that are the supposed cause
of the unit's failure's:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao"
id="m_-1444847845714941021LPlnk" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao</a></div>
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id="m_-1444847845714941021LPImageContainer661647">
<a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao"
id="m_-1444847845714941021LPImageAnchor661647" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><img width="240"
style="display: block;" height="180"
alt=""
id="m_-1444847845714941021LPThumbnailImageId661647"
src="cid:part5.0WbFGdZc.2FpJrirn@solarray.com" class=""></a></div>
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<div
style="font-size:21px;font-weight:300;margin-right:8px;font-family:wf_segoe-ui_light,"Segoe UI Light","Segoe WP Light","Segoe UI","Segoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif;margin-bottom:12px"
id="m_-1444847845714941021LPTitle661647">
<a style="text-decoration:none"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao"
id="m_-1444847845714941021LPUrlAnchor661647" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Mayfield
Renewables and Tigo Energy - Crosstalk
Workshop</a></div>
<div
style="font-size:14px;max-height:100px;color:rgb(102,102,102);font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe UI","Segoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif;margin-bottom:12px;margin-right:8px;overflow:hidden"
id="m_-1444847845714941021LPDescription661647">
A deep dive into how to design PLC
(Power-Line Communication) based solar
rapid shutdown systems in order to
minimize cross-talk and other signal
integrity issues. This is a technical
presentation meant to assist with the
design of large scale solar rooftop arrays
that use PLC-based rapid shutdown systems,
which are used to meet the rapid ...</div>
<div
style="font-size:14px;color:rgb(166,166,166);font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe UI","Segoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif"
id="m_-1444847845714941021LPMetadata661647">
<a href="http://www.youtube.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.youtube.com</a></div>
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<p
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<div id="m_-1444847845714941021divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
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color="#000000"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
on behalf of Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 14, 2025 1:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nick Lucchese <<a
href="mailto:lucchesesolar@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lucchesesolar@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter
experience</font>
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<div id="m_-1444847845714941021x_footer"
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CAUTION: External Email.</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Greetings David,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Can you elaborate on which products of theirs
failed catastrophically? Their TS4-F single and
double units by chance? My experience has been
an annoying occurrence where certain installed
units lock up requring replacement after the
array is shut down for O&M tasks but nothing
that starts burning as you mentioned. I've still
got a reasonable amount of them in my inventory
but would rather not deploy if they're "burning"
in some way.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for sharing your experience, Nick</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><i>We've had catastrophic failures with the
RSDs and have heard from plenty of others
that have had the same. The company denies
and deflects and blames the installer until
you are fatigued. A product that uses power
line communication that can start burning
when the signal gets corrupted should not be
allowed to remain on the market.</i></div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i>David Buckner</i></div>
<div><i>SES</i></div>
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id="m_-1444847845714941021x_m_878259205017742994m_-137277682212699085LPlnk689713"
title="SES Webstie"
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border="0"
alt=""
style="width: 20px; min-width: 20px; max-width: 20px; height: 20px; min-height: 20px; max-height: 20px;"
src="cid:part15.p5Yopv0A.1THASz59@solarray.com" class=""></p>
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<p
style="color:rgb(87,101,118);margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222</p>
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<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 6:06 PM
David Buckner via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>We've had catastrophic failures with the
RSDs and have heard from plenty of others
that have had the same. The company denies
and deflects and blames the installer until
you are fatigued. A product that uses power
line communication that can start burning
when the signal gets corrupted should not be
allowed to remain on the market.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>David Buckner</div>
<div>SES</div>
<br>
<div dir="ltr"
style="font-size:1px;direction:ltr">
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<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><img width="300" height="60"
border="0" alt=""
style="width: 300px; min-width: 300px; max-width: 300px; height: 60px; min-height: 60px; max-height: 60px; font-size: 0px;"
src="cid:part13.6EEhAbx8.lLZVw8o2@solarray.com" class=""></p>
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<tbody>
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<td
align="left"
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<p
style="color:rgb(87,101,118);margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">David Buckner<span
style="font-family:remialcxesans;font-size:1px;color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:1px"><span
style="font-family:template-uhk2k-LWEe6q8GBFvdVbFg"></span><span
style="font-family:zone-1"></span><span style="font-family:zones-AQ"></span></span></p>
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<p
style="color:rgb(87,101,118);margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">President</p>
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<tbody>
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<p
style="color:rgb(87,101,118);margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span
style="text-decoration:underline">Solar Energy Systems</span></p>
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<p
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border="0"
alt=""
style="width: 20px; min-width: 20px; max-width: 20px; height: 20px; min-height: 20px; max-height: 20px; font-size: 0px;"
src="cid:part11.3z0S67o9.NkzHtxTU@solarray.com" class=""></p>
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<p
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href="mailto:dbuckner@solaresystems.com"
id="m_-1444847845714941021x_m_878259205017742994m_-137277682212699085LPlnk689713"
style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(87,101,118)" target="_blank"
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src="cid:part14.QqOI88r6.gb0w41lG@solarray.com" class=""></p>
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href="https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.solaresystems.com%2F&tenantid=sjl0rdWaEe6F-WBFvdNAXQ&templateid=933619bad6e2ee11aaf06045bdd55b16&excomponentid=W0znjuLBICxfJOZwpEisk1w6Uz7kRcz8RFh31bsCZu4&excomponenttype=Link&signature=oLHGWCDHeQYPxuVijopczXguVIz2A9gWA29emAtwvdbqV2XsAnsbVfPJR3OQHtcxck-4zeNWEHrxwAX_LXCUOBXnvLDZkSB3Ue09sLzQcUNKGxMLclBt5peel7iiM1neHKnk8UctTRnOeUfIagifjZaGWicP4Wi23eUaL-JSNh0iUlYWH5Y2kOEt_QGU-R6LtdhPzR8aNOqjq8ttGuksaSFX3YQorUNiBDkXDGXmmCSiiNgljGMekvYiEvoXMsCe_CC1DpnfHsaH45ZBD8L442uACHbkOuyDJ-IG20zpBYXGK3TzDh-GW4efLwZfi6MUcJohrIgQQag5JDhSynWoDQ&v=1&imprintMessageId=70f4909c-5e4b-4d4e-a4f1-8a28a937dd26"
id="m_-1444847845714941021x_m_878259205017742994m_-137277682212699085LPlnk689713"
title="SES Webstie" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(87,101,118)"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.solaresystems.com</a><br>
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alt=""
style="width: 20px; min-width: 20px; max-width: 20px; height: 20px; min-height: 20px; max-height: 20px; font-size: 0px;"
src="cid:part12.Tl0gGPcy.u3K1IeYi@solarray.com" class=""></p>
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<p
style="color:rgb(87,101,118);margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222</p>
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<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div
id="m_-1444847845714941021x_m_878259205017742994m_-137277682212699085divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"
color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b>
RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
on behalf of Howie Michaelson via
RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 13, 2025
7:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Howie Michaelson <<a
href="mailto:Howie.Michaelson@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Howie.Michaelson@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo
inverter experience</font>
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<div
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I do not have a lot of experience
with Tigo equipment, almost all
using their optimizers with CCAs and
TAPs. The 2 things I can say is
after getting my head wrapped around
the setup and commissioning process
(which is not the most intuitive
process), I haven't had much trouble
with them (again only have maybe 4
or 5 systems out there), and their
tech support is generally very
available and very knowledgeable and
helpful, impressively so. Otherwise
I can't speak much to their
durability, reliability, or
functionality.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Howie Michaelson<br>
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<div
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Catcher</div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at
6:50 PM Vince McClellan via
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<div>Hi Dave</div>
<div>I haven't tried their micro
inverter or ESS, but so far all
the products that I've used from
Tigo including the RSD switches
that melted have been problematic.
Personally, I wouldn't use their
products. </div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Feb 6, 2025
at 10:53 AM Dave Tedeyan via
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<div>
<div>Hi All, </div>
<div>I am curious if anyone
has any experience with the
Tigo inverter and energy
storage system. It looks
very similar to the SMA
setup, but maybe a bit
farther along in
development. Even as just a
simple string inverter, it
seems fairly reasonably
priced.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Dave</div>
</div>
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