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<p>I would also add that the Generac ATS is not made for this
application, it is made to work with their generators only. It
connects to the generator control board for its voltage sensing,
etc. It can be "hot wired" to work with solar, but I had to add a
small battery ( for 12 v power) and a small charger to make it
work, and meanwhile Generac is NOT helpful for installers outside
their network. I couldn't even get good info on what the
different terminals of the ATS control did. <br>
</p>
<p>2nd, I agree with William that AIO inverters are not ready for
off grid applications, because of the numerous "safety" features
that take out the entire house with any fault. I think if I did
use one for off grid, I'd probably put the array on its own
separate charge controller. AIO is yet another product that seems
at first like a good idea, but in terms of reliability for off
grid is not. The touch screen programming of Solark for
instance, at first seemed like a huge improvement, but when the
inverter shuts off or does other weird things, then you realize
that you can't count on it at all. Too many settings are
strangely hidden in other menus, that can completely make the
system not behave like it should. Just shows you how much wisdom
folks like Bob Gudgel (RIP) had working on the old Trace stuff.
The old SWs mostly did what you expected, and kept us in business
all these years. <br>
</p>
<p>Solark needs a complete redo on their software/ firmware, to be
viable for off grid. <br>
</p>
<p>I'm about to try Midnite's new AIO for a backup situation, so
maybe I'll change my mind for their use in off grid
applications. <br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/14/2025 12:36 PM, William Miller
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:9ebc7ad21f806e98d80fe092b2a7e0a6@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Stuart:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
understand the concern and appreciate the consideration to
provide more reliability. The approach you suggested sounds
like a band-aid, not a cure. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
do not know if this complete shutdown is required by the
listing (a feature) or is just a bug. Does anyone have
information on this? If it is not required, the
manufacturers should certainly correct these problems. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">This
may be a case against All-in-on inverters. If there is a PV
arc fault on systems with separate charge controllers the
inverter will not curtail operation and it’s pass-through
capabilities.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William
Miller</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller
Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA
Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stuart Kriendler via RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 14, 2025 11:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Stuart Kriendler<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] ATS models to bypass GT hybrid
inverters for maintenance/faults</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good day Wrenches,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2025 looks to be the year for
installing more grid tied (GT) battery back up hybrid
inverters on new and existing GT PV systems in a whole
house backup scenario</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">i.e. Utility - Hybrid Inverter - House
Loads</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">With these newer GT hybrids so
'sensitive', any fault on the PV side can cause them to
shut down, thus stopping power to the house. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To minimise this it seems sensible to
add an ATS to the system such that if/when the hybrid
faults, the ATS w switch to grid power, bypass the hybrid,
and power the house.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This could save an emergency truck roll
or late night phone call for installers.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anyone have experience on good
value-for-money Listed automatic transfer switches that
would do the job, 200A, 120/240V?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Two name brand options that came up on
the less expensive end of the spectrum are:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#222222">- </span>Generac
RXSW200A3 (<a
href="https://www.generac.com/residential-products/standby-generator-transfer-switches/automatic/rxsw200a3/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.generac.com/residential-products/standby-generator-transfer-switches/automatic/rxsw200a3/</a>)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- <b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Aptos;color:black">Kohler
200-amp, Service Entrance RXT ATS |
RXT-JFNC-200ASEQS4 (</span></b><a
href="https://www.kohler.com/content/dam/kohler-com-NA/Lifestyle/PDF/PDF-g11152.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.kohler.com/content/dam/kohler-com-NA/Lifestyle/PDF/PDF-g11152.pdf</a>)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, they each say their ATSs must
be used with the corresponding generator.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would imagine a simple 'grid sense'
functionality would mean that if the hybrid's output was
connected to the Grid/Normal lugs and the grid was
connected to the Gene/Backup lugs in the ATS it should
work.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However I don't want to end up with an
expensive surprise in a relatively remote location where I
operate!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Would appreciate any feedback with
experience with the above or other ATS models or how
people are future proofing for this scenario?<br>
To do future maintenance/torque checks etc. in a GT hybrid
whole home backup situation, it would be nice to bypass
the inverter and keep the house powered for safety and
homeowner convenience in general.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks and best.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sunniest regards,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Stuart</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">441 599 2105</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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