<div dir="auto">I confirmed it - the Sol-Ark will start charging when PV is available even after the Shutoff voltage is reached. It will start inverting again when the Restart setpoint is reached. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jason</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 6:37 PM Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>I'll double-check that, but I have a site with an undersized PV system and I'm pretty certain it reaches shutoff regularly and recovers without intervention. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 6:22 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<p>Interesting, because that has not been my experience, and Solark
confirmed that when the inverter shuts down, the PV charging does
too. Maybe that has changed in a firmware update. Or possibly,
the inverter went through LBCO on the output as you mentioned,
then dropped further through the night to shut down completely by
the next morning. Either way, the system has required manually
resetting to start charging again. <br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
</p>
<div>On 10/11/2024 3:57 PM, Chris Sparadeo
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">Hi Ray,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I don’t think your understanding of the Sol Ark’s
PV and LBCO relationship reflects actual functionality.
Technically, Sol Ark doesn’t have a formal LBCO, but it has a
“shut down” setting that cuts out AC output and can be
programmed to cut off and cut back in at selected SOC or voltage
settings, but as long as the battery is connected, the Sol Ark
sees that voltage and PV production if available, solar
production will recharge batteries, regardless of AC output. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">But yes, I agrees that AIO’s could use a healthy
dose of redundancy to allow for less fickle output.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">-Chris </div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at
5:26 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<p>Another reason to do separate charge controllers is Low
battery. If the AIO inverter hits its LBCO, then it
takes out the PV input as well. Then the draw of the BCM
takes what's left in the battery, and you're into a dark
start. Generator won't even help. AIOs are easy to
install, but not as full proof as DC coupled PV
systems. Also, the inter communication is a major
issue. I've seen inter connected charge controllers
take each other out, which really defeats the redundancy
of having multiple units. I'm sure many on the list
will question my wisdom; but I usually don't
interconnect any of the equipment from a comms stand
point. I use open loop charging based on voltage. <br>
</p>
<p>I once had a pinched temp sensor, that thought the
batteries were at 5000 deg Kelvin. It shut all 4
inverters down. My most reliable multiple inverter
setup is a four SW4048 system that is now 24 years old.
Each inverter feeds one leg of two load centers. No
comms, No 240 vac loads. No shut downs. That is the
gold standard, and none of the AIO stuff, nor the module
level rapid shutdown etc, can even get close to the
level of reliability we had in the past. In the off
grid world, shut downs can be life threatening, and all
the additional "safety" stuff added to the code since,
has actually made my off grid customers less safe. <br>
</p>
<p>You have to think what happens if the battery gets low,
and no one is home? Can it recover on its own, like a
traditional DC coupled Lead acid system? Basically, If
the system can't hit LBCO, recharge the next day, and
automatically turn loads back on, we've gone backwards
in our designs, and equipment selection. AIOs are
inferior if they can't achieve this basic
functionality. If UL standards are causing this, then
those standards are incorrect for critical off grid and
backup applications. <br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>On 10/10/2024 4:02 PM, Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Install stand-alone charge controllers.
That is the only way to get redundancy.<br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 10 Oct 2024
at 14:59, Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">Aloha All,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you Jason. This is a huge and
surprising issue. So much so that I dropped what
I was doing and called Sol-Ark to confirm. Mind
you this was level 1 support, but I was told
this is what the Sol-Arks are supposed to do and
it is a feature not a bug. Their take is if
there is any fault on any one string, the
Sol-Ark assumes the worst and shuts everything
down. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I wonder what solutions could be implemented
on future installs to prevent this from
happening? </div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Aloha,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Lou Russo </div>
<div>Owner</div>
<div><a href="mailto:lou@spreesolarsystems.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">lou@spreesolarsystems.com</a></div>
<div>Office - 808 345 6762</div>
<div>Spree Solar Systems LLC </div>
<div>CT-34322</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 10,
2024 at 11:45 AM Jason Szumlanski via
RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I think it's more likely
water in a J-box or possibly physical
damage, but someone passed by the property
and did not observe any physical damage to
the array.</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Jason Szumlanski
<div><span style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar
Design Group</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(51,51,51)">NABCEP
Certified Solar Professional
(PVIP)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Florida
State Certified Solar Contractor
CVC56956</span></div>
<div><font face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Florida
Certified Electrical Contractor
EC13013208</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu,
Oct 10, 2024 at 5:41 PM Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">Jason </div>
<div dir="ltr">What’s the possibllity it
was a lighting strike?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Oct 10,
2024, at 2:57 PM, Jason Szumlanski
via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We have been talking a
lot recently about all-in-ones.
I just had a massive fail during
Hurricane Milton with a quad
Sol-Ark 15K off-grid system that
deserves some discussion about
whether AIO is a good idea if it
can't build in some resilience
to errors. I'm not sure if the
new Midnite unit is better in
this respect, but this is what
happened to the Sol-Ark
system...</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Four inverters, each with
4 strings of PV paralleled to 2
MPPT per inverter. One of the
slave units developed some sort
of PV DC fault during the storm.
This caused the slave inverter
to shut down and throw an error,
which in turn caused a parallel
fault across all four inverters.
Power output ceases at that
point. Apparently the system
keeps resetting because I have a
cell modem that uploads data to
Sol-Ark, but that cell modem is
powered by the inverter outputs,
so it must be getting power at
least intermittently. The rest
of the loads are basically
flatlined according to the
Sol-Ark data. It's mostly air
conditioners, so they probably
can't turn on fast enough before
the PV fault causes another
shutdown.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">So, in essence, one of 16
strings of PV develops a fault,
and that causes all four
inverters to malfunction? What
is the point of redundancy if a
fault of one results in a fault
of all?! If there is a true PV
input fault, shouldn't that just
shut down that MPPT, or perhaps
all of the PV DC input to that
inverter? And why can't this
inverter continue to invert
power from the batteries and
charge from a generator when
there is a DC input fault
that could be programmatically
isolated and ignored?</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This is a bad design in
my opinion, and something I
hadn't considered. If the
faulted inverter can't function
with a DC input fault, it should
just take itself out of the
game. (This is 120/240 split
phase, BTW). Is this how all AIO
inverters work? One inverter
fault on the DC side kills all
paralleled units' AC output? Not
good.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This is a completely
off-grid system on a remote
island with no vehicle access,
so it's not exactly easy to do a
"truck roll" on this one,
especially post-hurricane. To
make matters worse, the
generator was running at the
time of the fault, as it was
being signaled to run because
the battery had reached the
assigned charge voltage. The
fault also killed the 2-wire
start signal from the master, so
the system also stopped passing
through generator power to the
loads. The house is dark.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Jason Szumlanski</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Florida Solar Design
Group</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
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