<div dir="auto">Hi Ray,</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I don’t think your understanding of the Sol Ark’s PV and LBCO relationship reflects actual functionality. Technically, Sol Ark doesn’t have a formal LBCO, but it has a “shut down” setting that cuts out AC output and can be programmed to cut off and cut back in at selected SOC or voltage settings, but as long as the battery is connected, the Sol Ark sees that voltage and PV production if available, solar production will recharge batteries, regardless of AC output. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But yes, I agrees that AIO’s could use a healthy dose of redundancy to allow for less fickle output.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-Chris </div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 5:26 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><u></u>
<div>
<p>Another reason to do separate charge controllers is Low battery.
If the AIO inverter hits its LBCO, then it takes out the PV input
as well. Then the draw of the BCM takes what's left in the
battery, and you're into a dark start. Generator won't even
help. AIOs are easy to install, but not as full proof as DC
coupled PV systems. Also, the inter communication is a major
issue. I've seen inter connected charge controllers take each
other out, which really defeats the redundancy of having multiple
units. I'm sure many on the list will question my wisdom; but I
usually don't interconnect any of the equipment from a comms stand
point. I use open loop charging based on voltage. <br>
</p>
<p>I once had a pinched temp sensor, that thought the batteries were
at 5000 deg Kelvin. It shut all 4 inverters down. My most
reliable multiple inverter setup is a four SW4048 system that is
now 24 years old. Each inverter feeds one leg of two load
centers. No comms, No 240 vac loads. No shut downs. That is the
gold standard, and none of the AIO stuff, nor the module level
rapid shutdown etc, can even get close to the level of reliability
we had in the past. In the off grid world, shut downs can be life
threatening, and all the additional "safety" stuff added to the
code since, has actually made my off grid customers less safe. <br>
</p>
<p>You have to think what happens if the battery gets low, and no
one is home? Can it recover on its own, like a traditional DC
coupled Lead acid system? Basically, If the system can't hit
LBCO, recharge the next day, and automatically turn loads back on,
we've gone backwards in our designs, and equipment selection. AIOs
are inferior if they can't achieve this basic functionality. If
UL standards are causing this, then those standards are incorrect
for critical off grid and backup applications. <br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p></div><div>
<div>On 10/10/2024 4:02 PM, Eric Smiley via
RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Install stand-alone charge controllers. That is the
only way to get redundancy.<br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
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We are steadfast in our commitment to
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 at 14:59,
Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">Aloha All,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you Jason. This is a huge and surprising issue.
So much so that I dropped what I was doing and called
Sol-Ark to confirm. Mind you this was level 1 support, but
I was told this is what the Sol-Arks are supposed to do
and it is a feature not a bug. Their take is if there is
any fault on any one string, the Sol-Ark assumes the worst
and shuts everything down. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I wonder what solutions could be implemented on future
installs to prevent this from happening? </div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Aloha,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Lou Russo </div>
<div>Owner</div>
<div><a href="mailto:lou@spreesolarsystems.com" target="_blank">lou@spreesolarsystems.com</a></div>
<div>Office - 808 345 6762</div>
<div>Spree Solar Systems LLC </div>
<div>CT-34322</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at
11:45 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I
think it's more likely water in a J-box or possibly
physical damage, but someone passed by the property
and did not observe any physical damage to the
array.</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Jason Szumlanski
<div><span style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(51,51,51)">NABCEP
Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Florida
State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div>
<div><font face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Florida
Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208</font></div>
</div>
</div>
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<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 10, 2024
at 5:41 PM Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">Jason </div>
<div dir="ltr">What’s the possibllity it was a
lighting strike?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Oct 10, 2024, at
2:57 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We have been talking a
lot recently about all-in-ones. I just had
a massive fail during Hurricane Milton
with a quad Sol-Ark 15K off-grid system
that deserves some discussion about
whether AIO is a good idea if it can't
build in some resilience to errors. I'm
not sure if the new Midnite unit is better
in this respect, but this is what happened
to the Sol-Ark system...</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Four inverters, each with
4 strings of PV paralleled to 2 MPPT per
inverter. One of the slave units developed
some sort of PV DC fault during the storm.
This caused the slave inverter to shut
down and throw an error, which in turn
caused a parallel fault across all four
inverters. Power output ceases at that
point. Apparently the system keeps
resetting because I have a cell modem that
uploads data to Sol-Ark, but that cell
modem is powered by the inverter outputs,
so it must be getting power at least
intermittently. The rest of the loads are
basically flatlined according to the
Sol-Ark data. It's mostly air
conditioners, so they probably can't turn
on fast enough before the PV fault causes
another shutdown.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">So, in essence, one of 16
strings of PV develops a fault, and that
causes all four inverters to malfunction?
What is the point of redundancy if a fault
of one results in a fault of all?! If
there is a true PV input fault, shouldn't
that just shut down that MPPT, or perhaps
all of the PV DC input to that inverter?
And why can't this inverter continue to
invert power from the batteries and charge
from a generator when there is a DC input
fault that could be programmatically
isolated and ignored?</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This is a bad design in
my opinion, and something I hadn't
considered. If the faulted inverter can't
function with a DC input fault, it should
just take itself out of the game. (This is
120/240 split phase, BTW). Is this how all
AIO inverters work? One inverter fault on
the DC side kills all paralleled units' AC
output? Not good.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This is a completely
off-grid system on a remote island with no
vehicle access, so it's not exactly easy
to do a "truck roll" on this one,
especially post-hurricane. To make matters
worse, the generator was running at the
time of the fault, as it was being
signaled to run because the battery had
reached the assigned charge voltage. The
fault also killed the 2-wire start signal
from the master, so the system also
stopped passing through generator power to
the loads. The house is dark.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Jason Szumlanski</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Florida Solar Design
Group</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
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