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Hello All,<br>
<br>
We are collaborating closely with Steve Higgins to address and resolve any concerns or potential misunderstandings that may arise regarding the use of flooded or deep cycle batteries in conjunction with the Sol-Ark inverter. Additionally, Dave Tedeya is actively
engaging with both our Support and Applications teams to ensure that the programmed values in the inverter are set optimally for performance.</div>
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@Eric Smiley, I welcome the opportunity to have a direct conversation with you to better understand your concerns regarding the use of lead-acid batteries with the Sol-Ark inverter. Please don’t hesitate to reach out to me directly; I would be more than happy
to hear your concerns regarding the combination of lead acid batteries with the Sol-Ark inverter.</div>
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Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Jharen Poole</div>
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Applications Engineer II</div>
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jharen.poole@sol-ark.com</div>
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972-575-8875</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf of Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 7, 2024 8:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dave Tedeyan <dave@sungineersolar.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Lead acid batteries taking too much current</span>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">I thought I would update everyone here about a way to prevent the generator from running too long. It sounds like I am not the only one this has happened to. You can enable Time of Use settings in the System Work Mode menu (at least
from the online menus). Enable all days and charge times. It then lets you set a power and voltage (or SOC) limit for charging during these times. Supposedly this will cut the generator off when it reaches this limit, rather than waiting until its own calculated
time to stop.</div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">Cheers,</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Dave</div>
<br>
<div style="direction: ltr;">On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 12:29 PM Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" id="OWAff955fa1-db49-cb4f-229c-b2824a518184" class="OWAAutoLink">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<div style="direction: ltr;">Our company does not pair any lead acid with a Sol-Ark. Our opinion is that the unit is designed for Li-Ion and that is what should be used. In much the same way that some legacy off-grid products don't play nicely with Li-Ion,
we stick with combinations that don't require specialized programming work-arounds that aren't in the manufacturer's manual.</div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">Interesting aside, I recently had to service a very old Trace DR system which the client had upgraded to Can-Bat Li-Ion. The service call had to do with the generator but I checked the batteries and charging history. It looks like
the DR is so dumb it, it works just fine with the BMS keeping an eye on things. </div>
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<span style="font-size: 16px;"><b>Eric Smiley</b></span><span style="font-size: 14px;"> (he/him) - Design Manager</span></div>
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this land that we all consider home.</div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 at 08:22, Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" id="OWA4629bdfb-10f8-44a3-6ca7-0f849b6758d5" class="OWAAutoLink">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<div style="direction: ltr;">Sol Ark is adding an end amps (return amps) timer so you can control when the inverter transitions from absorb to float. The problem now is that it is limited to 2% of the programmed or calculated battery capacity for 10 minutes.
Once the new firmware is released, it'll be 2% for up to 4 hours. This does not mean you shouldn't still use the EQ cycles (Programmed to Absorb Voltages and Times) to ensure a full 100% charge. Using only end amps to charge a lead battery of any type
is generally a bad idea. End Amp or Return Amp settings were designed to ensure that a fully charged battery didn't get overcharged. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Another issue is the battery's internal resistance, which can cause issues with FLA, AGM, or GEL batteries. If the internal resistance is higher than expected, the inverter will slightly increase the battery voltage to increase
the current flow. If you are dealing with an already hot battery, this may cause the batteries to overvolt and swell up, especially if they are already hot while undercharge. <br>
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<div style="padding-top: 1px; padding-right: 10px;"><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" id="OWA22827e6f-c930-202d-0e6e-76c78ac657a8" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable"><img width="98" height="115" style="width: 98px; height: 115px; margin-right: 10px; padding-top: 3px; padding-left: 10px; float: left;" src="https://i.imgur.com/YIluKhq.png"></a>
<div style="direction: ltr; line-height: 20px; margin: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<span style="color: rgb(187, 26, 29);"><b>Steve Higgins ⋅ </b></span><span style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(64, 64, 64);"><b>Technical Services Manager</b></span></div>
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<span style="color: rgb(187, 26, 29);"><b>t</b></span><span style="color: rgb(184, 39, 106);"><b>
</b></span><span style="color: rgb(64, 64, 64);">+1.902.597.4020</span><span style="color: rgb(184, 39, 106);"><b>
</b></span><span style="color: rgb(187, 26, 29);"><b>m</b></span><b> </b><span style="color: rgb(64, 64, 64);">+1.206.790.5840</span></div>
<div style="direction: ltr; line-height: 20px; margin: 0px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">
<span style="color: rgb(187, 26, 29);"><b>f</b></span><span style="color: rgb(207, 29, 12);"><b>
</b></span>+1.902.597.8447 <span style="color: rgb(187, 26, 29);"><b>e</b></span>
<span style="color: rgb(64, 64, 64);"><a href="mailto:steve@surrette.com" id="OWA304effa3-f953-d281-e785-899577054e60" class="OWAAutoLink" style="color: rgb(64, 64, 64); text-decoration: none;">steve@surrette.com</a></span></div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 8:11 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" id="OWAa6239c39-b3eb-231e-ddf4-ea8357327cb1" class="OWAAutoLink">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<div style="direction: ltr;">Steve, thanks for the call. I am using voltages, rather than SOC to start/stop the generator. I also just reduced the battery resistance to 0 based on your recommendation.</div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">Jay, </div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">There is a temp sensor. The batteries only got to about 32deg C after 14 hours of charging.</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">I got the 7 hours of absorb time based on the equation capacity*.42/charge current. 890AH*.42/50A = ~7.5 hours (I used 50A rather than 75A, since I figured it would be unlikely that the solar would often be able to sustain 75A for
very long)</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">The 5% is not adjustable. I think the adjustment is in the battery capacity. Steve just corrected me on this though, as he mentioned it is actually 2%. </div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">Cheers,</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Dave</div>
<br>
<div style="direction: ltr;">On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 11:01 AM Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" id="OWA3f327c32-7e55-348c-9280-7129ddaaf9d2" class="OWAAutoLink">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);">
<div style="direction: ltr;">Hi Dave</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">I bet there is no way to install a temp sensor?</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Question about the 7 hrs absorb time. Where did you come up with that figure. </div>
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</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Is the 5% adjustable or the adjustment is in the battery capacity?</div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">Thx</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Jay</div>
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<blockquote>
<div style="direction: ltr;">On Oct 4, 2024, at 8:30 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" id="OWA423cc275-d332-73b6-2ed8-1d9ac2135723" class="OWAAutoLink">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
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<blockquote>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">Hi All, </div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">I have inherited and done some work on an off-grid system with a Sol-Ark 8k inverter and now has a new set of 16 Rolls S6 L16-HC batteries (only about a month old). There is only 3.9kw of solar, and there is a 12kw generator. </div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">First of all, thanks to Steve for putting out that webinar a little while ago on how to program a Sol-Ark with lead acid batteries! I followed that for the programming of this inverter.</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Recently, the generator kicked on when it should. But it never turned itself off. I had to go into the battery settings and turn off grid and gen charging to get the generator to turn off. From looking at the monitoring, even once
the batteries were full, they were still accepting over 40A of current. A few hours later, the batteries were accepting almost 50A of current. </div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">The battery bank has a capacity of 890AH, but based on the FLA recommendations I set the capacity to 70% of that, or 650AH so that it absorbs longer. Based on the Sol-Ark programming, it will run the generator until the batteries
are accepting 5% of that, or 32.5A. It seems that since the system never got down to that little amount of current, it never turned off the generator and never stopped charging. I had the customer check the water level and they said it was low, but not below
the level of the plates. </div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Does anyone know why the batteries might have been accepting so much current even when fully charged? And in order to get the final amps that the inverter is looking for to turn off the generator, I would need to set the capacity
up to about 780AH or about 90% of the rated capacity. Is upping the capacity the recommended action to prevent this from happening in the future? </div>
<div style="direction: ltr;"><br>
</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">I also have a follow up question. Being that there is not a ton of solar here, the recommendation for a full absorb every few days ends up being about 7 hours of absorb time. I am wondering if there is a way to force the inverter
to do an EQ cycle (although we are really just using the EQ function on the inverter to get a full absorb cycle every few days) when we know it will be a sunny day? I would also like to be able to start an EQ cycle and also start the generator to give a good
top off. It seems that you can choose the EQ frequency, but you don't know exactly when it will try to EQ.</div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">Thanks in advance!</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Cheers,</div>
<div style="direction: ltr;">Dave</div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(51, 122, 183);"><a href="https://www.sungineersolar.com/" id="OWA5bb31a38-3fa5-5c74-82a9-f40dcd7d6ddc" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" style="color: rgb(51, 122, 183);"><img alt="Logo" width="105" style="width: 105px; height: auto;" src="https://sungineersolar.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Logo-Image-Only-1.png"></a></span></td>
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<div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(236, 189, 0);">
<span style="font-weight: 700;">Dave Tedeyan, P.E.<br>
Owner | Sungineer Solar</span></div>
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<span style="color: rgb(236, 189, 0); font-weight: 700;">p: </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">he | him | his</span><span style="color: rgb(236, 189, 0); font-weight: 700;"><br>
a: </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">1653 Slaterville Rd.</span><span style="color: rgb(68, 68, 68);"> </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">| Ithaca, NY 14850</span><span style="color: rgb(68, 68, 68);"><br>
</span><span style="color: rgb(236, 189, 0); font-weight: 700;">w:</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><a href="http://www.sungineersolar.com/" id="OWAe5ef8b67-0473-d432-c21e-161435b27668" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> www.sungineersolar.com</a></span><span style="color: rgb(68, 68, 68);"><br>
</span><span style="color: rgb(236, 189, 0); font-weight: 700;">c:</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> (607) 270-0370</span></div>
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