<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-CA" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">We used to work with / recommend ASCO, but no longer. We had a site with dual ASC8000’s 400A 3 phase units switching between Gen 1 and Gen 2. Control board sensor problems arose and it failed to
auto transfer back from Gen 2-1 due to sensor issues. Had to get client to open cabinet and affect a manual transfer.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Despite having the extended warranty, they didn’t provide us service when requested. They also refused to sell us the board to replace. They didn’t refuse outright, just kept making appointments,
failing to show up, one excuse after the other. The site was a 15 minute boat ride on a commercial water taxi and that was their latest excuse. Extremely unprofessional. We lost this client partially due to this.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Kevin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> September-20-24 8:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarage01@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] ATS Brand Recommendations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Wrenches, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you are looking for a very good ATS, you need to look at ASCO that's what they do, from small less than 100 amp to high voltage multi 1000 amp units, they are a simple 2 wire start, l also use the Kohler products with no issues, l have
AC Coupled off grid, DC Coupled on grid<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Fun times<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 8:36 AM August Goers via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Sam -<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It's been probably 6 or 8 years since I've selected a 3rd party automatic transfer switch, but we used to use Briggs & Stratton products with good results:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://energy.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/homeowners/products/standby-generators/transfer-switches-and-accessories.html" target="_blank">https://energy.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/homeowners/products/standby-generators/transfer-switches-and-accessories.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">At least at the time, these had internal circuitry to do the transfer between grid and offgrid operation with a pre-programmed delay of about 10 or 20 seconds. We paired these frequently with Sunny Islands.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now that the major ESS manufacturers have Microgrid Interconnect Devices (MIDs) for their systems, we don't have any reason to use these. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">August<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Luminalt<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 7:35 AM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are primarily a grid-tied solar EPC but like many solar companies have a long history with small off-grid installations. In the past few years we have been tackling a handful of large, complex, grid-tied battery-backup systems (sub
90 kwh) range with some working flawlessly and some plagued with weekly quirks. A weak link we've found in two of these installations was our choice to use Generac Automatic Transfer Switches. In order for this ATS to sense a grid outage and perform its
transfer it relies on circuitry built into a Generac generator as well as a source of 12v power (typically the generator start battery). <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">One of our sites doesn't have a generator at all and the other does, but the grid sensing circuitry in the ATS is bypassed as we want the Sol-Arks to be the first-line of power during an outage and not the generator. In order to accomplish
this our electrician designed custom circuitry for grid sensing which is powered by a separate 12v source, has a 10 second delay, and flips the transfer switch during an outage placing the loads under the control of the Sol-Arks. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Our initial design for these systems did not take into consideration that a Generac ATS doesn't have its own "brains" to grid sense and since we are now relying on a small custom circuit and a small external 12v power supply to act as a
key player in an otherwise powerful and robust backup system we are second guessing our equipment choice. What ATS solutions are Wrenches employing that we should be considering? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">TL;DR - what are the simplest ATS solutions that sense the grid (frequency, voltage, et al) and self-switch between backup and grid power automatically? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sam<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" style="padding:0cm 7.5pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://onsiteenergyinc.com/&source=gmail-html&ust=1677085494759000&usg=AOvVaw2NN36GoM1sjnS4RdC8Svt-" target="_blank"><span style="border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="84" height="84" style="width:.875in;height:.875in" id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://i.postimg.cc/4xVVZ5jT/email-logo.png" alt="OnSite Energy"></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" valign="bottom" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#514CA0;text-transform:uppercase">SAM HARALDSON </span></b><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#514CA0;text-transform:uppercase"> </span><span style="color:#514CA0;text-transform:uppercase"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="bottom" style="padding:0cm 3.75pt 0cm 0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#F9A145">Operations Specialist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:8.0pt"><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#514CA0">(406) 551-6135<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:8.0pt"><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#514CA0"><a href="https://www.google.com/maps/search/1515+N.+Rouse+Ave+Bozeman,+MT+59715?entry=gmail&source=g">1515 N. Rouse Ave Bozeman, MT 59715</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:9.0pt"><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#F9A145">Locally owned and operated since 2012<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</td>
<td valign="bottom" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://onsiteenergyinc.com/bcorp" target="_blank"><span style="border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="22" height="33" style="width:.225in;height:.3416in" id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://i.postimg.cc/2y1LtFnM/email-bcorp.png" hspace="2" vspace="2" alt="B Corporation"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">
RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br>
<a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">
RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br>
<a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>