<div dir="ltr">I have found that some of the older Outback FX, MX, and even some older FMs don't like how the voltage rises; this can cause them to shut off charge prematurely. I have found that the products made in 2008 and newer can be configured with some tweaking to make it work, but the Lithium battery must have its own BMS, and you have to be able to monitor SOC and Voltage.   This applies to many products; I wouldn't be surprised if many older legacy chargers struggle to charge LFPs. Many legacy inverters can have issues charging LFP batteries, so when you install them, make sure you commission them fully and check on them repeatedly to ensure that they are charging correctly. <br><br>As for discharging, yes, try to keep them above 20% SOC, as going lower will shorten cycle life. Many LFP manufacturers flat-out lie about them or build them with a buffer to accommodate the deeper discharge.   Discharging below 20% SOC will shorten the LFP lifecycle by up to 50%... <br><br>If you have parallel LFP batteries that are not connected in closed-loop communication, make sure you balance them periodically, at least every 9-12 months. Failure to do so can lead to imbalances and over-discharge of the unbalanced battery, which could "brick" the battery. Having a bit longer absorb timer (20-30 min per parallel string) will help with this, but programming short absorb timers will lead to balancing issues.   What happens here is the voltage of the battery drops unevenly, and a large load surging could draw the imbalanced battery below the minimum voltage, causing the BMS to shut off to prevent cell damage due to discharge.   Balancing is as simple as separating all parallel strings and charging each battery independently until SOC is 100% across all parallel batteries. <br><br>Don't get cheap on connections. Install a positive and negative bus and wire each battery to the bus with cables of equal size and length. Be sure to use OCP on the positive conductors. This will make separation and balancing periodically much more manageable and is an excellent idea (Code requirements are going this way anyway) to prevent battery-to-battery shorts in case someone drops a wrench or tools...  Trying to wire these like you would three parallel strings of Lead with cables will induce balancing/connection issues. <br><br>I have found that many customers buy LFPs expecting them to operate like Lead. This is a huge mistake. Whatever you do, do not allow a 12v or 24v LFP battery to go below its nominal voltage (10v or 20V for 12/24v operation).  With lead batteries, namely flooded lead acid, you can do this, and harm in the short run is minimal, but with lithium, doing so can "Brick" the battery. At that point, your only hope is to place a regulated power supply on the battery for a few days in hopes of recovering it.   We make an S-Series battery that you can pull the cover off and apply a power supply voltage to wake up the BMS. Still, you must be very careful doing this because if cell damage occurs and you note higher than normal temperatures when charging, the cells have been damaged. It's not a good idea to continue using the battery.   This is a very costly lesson that some have had to learn the hardway. <br><div><br><br></div><div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div style="float:left;padding:1px 10px 0 0"><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/YIluKhq.png" alt="" style="padding:3px 0px 0px 10px;float:left;margin-right:10px;width:98px;height:115px"></a><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:bold;font-stretch:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:20px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><font color="#bb1a1d">Steve Higgins ⋅ 
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<p style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:georgia;font-size:10pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:georgia;font-size:10pt"><a href="https://forum.outbackpower.com/viewtopic.php?t=17565" target="_blank">https://forum.outbackpower.com/viewtopic.php?t=17565</a></p>
<p style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:georgia;font-size:10pt"> </p>
<p style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:georgia;font-size:10pt"> </p>
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<p style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:georgia;font-size:10pt">On Tuesday, September 17, 2024 8:42am, "jay via RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> said:<br><br></p>
<div id="m_-8660379406313438504SafeStyles1726588012">HI Dave,
<div>A whole new world. </div>
<div>I didn’t realize how expensive the backwoods are, wow.</div>
<div>There are many out there for around $1200 but not a lot in 24v.</div>
<div>I have used many of the EG4 LL batteries, which at this point is one of the larger brands. </div>
<div>I greatly prefer and only recommend batteries that have an active display that shows %, volts, amps, cell voltages, temperature. </div>
<div>And I prefer ones that have a built in breaker. </div>
<div>I don’t like ones with bluetooth as I’ve seen that fail when there is an issue and then you can’t see what’s going on as the bluetooth is down too.</div>
<div>you’ll be really impressed once you get the hang of how differently they work. </div>
<div>And as to size, to me its all based around days of autonomy.  Is 65% enough and to what DOD are you doing that?</div>
<div>I usually only recommend running them down to 20%, sure you can go to 10% but anything less than that you’re in the zone of how accurate the % meter in the battery is.</div>
<div>I’m sure you’ll get a whole lot of advice,</div>
<div>good luck</div>
<div>jay</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<blockquote>
<div>On Sep 17, 2024, at 9:19 AM, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Wrenches,</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">I have a nice little rental house here in my off-grid neighborhood that after 40 years is ready to transition to LiFePO4 batteries. </div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">I have no experience with any lithium home power storage batteries. I'm looking for advice, so I can avoid mistakes as a rental house with battery problems is quite the pain in the ass. The last tenant was my daughter so life with older lead acids wasn't a huge issue, but now I want something I won't have to enter the house to monitor and operate. I'll bullet what I think I know and my questions.</div>
<ul style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;list-style-type:disc">
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div>The house has four 11-year-old Trojan Industrial IND 17-6 for 925 AH @ 24V that are amply sized for the houses loads.</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div>It has a newer TriMetric meter that I was supposed to be able to set up for web access using their WIFI module, but I have had no success with being able to monitor battery state of charge remotely.</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div>I really need something that will give me battery state of charge information without entering the house.</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div>The system has a single OutBack VFX3624. PV array is 2.5kW. </div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div>System also has a Iota 40A charger so charging with my 6 KW genset is typically in the 100Amp range with the OutBack and Iota.</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div>We are in northern Vermont, so we rack up significant generator (NOT auto-start) run time in the winter months. </div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div> I'm looking at Eclipse LiFePO4 24V 200AH. Three of these will give me 600AH @ 24V which is 65% of the rated Amp Hrs of the Trojan Industrials now in use. Is this enough?</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div>My battery box can easily handle up to four of the Eclipse 24V 200AH batteries. I see that Backwoods recommends that only three of the Eclipse are connected with battery cables. If I opted for four (for 800AH) I would need to use a busbar.</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div>Are there other distributors of Eclipse batteries other than Backwoods Solar that I should consider? I haven't used my dealer account with them for a number of years and I'm not sure that I'll get a good price from them.</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div>What is the lead time for getting these batteries shipped out?</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div>Are there other LiFePO4 batteries I should consider?</div>
</li>
<li style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div>Is 600AH of LiFePO4's enough to replace 925AH of LA's?</div>
</li>
</ul>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Dave Palumbo</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Retired from running Independent Power, but active in off-grid solar.</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Hyde Park, VT</div>
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<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Pay optional member dues here:<span> </span></span><a style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" href="http://re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">List Address:<span> </span></span><a style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Change listserver email address & settings:</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><a style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;fon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