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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Friends:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks for the feedback on the issue. The relevant code sections are below (2020 version).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I see nothing that prevents splicing in a panelboard as long as there is adequate cross-sectional area (312.8).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Note that if circuits run through a panel and do not originate in that panel, there must be a warning label (312.8(A)(3)).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">There is a requirement to run all conductors of a given circuit together in any raceway (300.3(B). Unless you are running jacketed cable, which does not apply here, there is no way to run wires into a panel except through a raceway. Even the shortest option, a chase nipple, is a section of raceway. So if you are relocating a circuit with a neutral to a critical loads sub-panel you must run the neutral with it the entire distance and connect it in that critical loads sub-panel.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The conductors in AC wiring systems emit EMF and the EMF from different conductors can interact with each other and metallic objects nearby, creating eddy currents. This effect is heightened in metallic raceways. It is important that all conductors of AC circuits be in close proximity because it helps reduce external EMF. I believe this is the reason behind 300.3(B).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I always try to think about any technician that might come after me and try to make it obvious what is being done in order to make troubleshooting easier and safer. Making someone search around for a corresponding neutral is just not good practice.</span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Based on the code and this logic, I am very clear that one must connect neutrals within the load-center that holds the overcurrent protection feeding that circuit.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William Miller</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">300.3(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of the</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor and all</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary gutter,</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">cable u-ay, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or cord, unless</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(l) through</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">(B)(4) .</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I see nothing in B1-B4 that applies here, so no exception.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">312.8 Switch and Overcurrent Device Enclosures. The wiring</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">space within enclosures for switches and overcurrent devices</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">shall be permitted for other wiring and equipment subject to</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">limi tations for specific equipment as provided in 312.8(A) and</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">(B).</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">(A) Splices, Taps, and Feed-Through Conductors. The wiring</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">space of enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall be</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">permitted for conductors feeding through, spliced, or tapping</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">off to other enclosures, switches, or overcurrent devices where</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">all of the following conditions are met:</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">(1) The total of all conductors installed at any cross section of</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">the wiring space doe not exceed 40 percent of the crosssectional</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">area of that space.</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">(2) The total area of all conductors, splices, and taps installed</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">at any cross section of the wiring space does not exceed</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">(3) A warning label complying with 110.21(B) is applied to</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">the enclosure that identifies the closest disconnecting</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red">means for any feed-through conductors.</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller Solar</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/"><span style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA Lic. 773985</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray Walters via RE-wrenches<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 1, 2024 2:09 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Ray Walters<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Neutral run to critical loads sub-panel</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p>Hi Dana;</p><p>What code section is he/ she referencing? Many times, wires are left too short to land on a particular breaker or buss, so splices in the load center happen even in regular electrical work. Our inspectors here consider a load center the same as any other electrical enclosure: subject to wire and splice fill requirements. We've beaten this dead horse subject before, many years back. </p><p>So your inspector would require you to tear into a finished wall to install a gutter, just to relocate a breaker in the same panel, and extend the circuit wire with a splice? What if you accidentally cut one neutral wire a few inches short; suddenly you need the custom plaster crew back out to patch? I've had MLPs installed in walls with very expensive wall finishes. I'm not tearing into that wall unless it's the only way. The majority of inspectors are not electricians. </p><p>Code citations, please. </p><p>Thanks,</p><p>Ray Walters<br>Remote Solar</p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 8/1/2024 2:44 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">Wire nuts in a breaker panel are not allowed per my inspector per code. Pull the Romex out of the breaker panel & spllce in a wire gutter to extend. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">I have seen this enforced twice now.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">_________________________________________________________</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#275317">Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#275317">C – 208.721.7003 E – <a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com"><span style="color:#275317;text-decoration:none">dana@solarwork.com</span></a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#275317">W - www. <a href="http://greatsolarworks.com">greatsolarworks.com</a> <a href="http://www.solarwork.com/"><span style="color:#275317;text-decoration:none">www.solarwork.com</span></a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><u><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#275317">“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”</span></u></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><br><br></span></p><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</pre><pre> </pre><pre>Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre>Change listserver email address & settings:</pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre>There are two list archives for searching. 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