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<p><font size="4">The reason for less white PV wire I believe is due
to less UV resistance capability. Time showed that it was
inferior to black. Using black in lieu of white, and color
coding at the terminal connections is an allowed practice and
that is why less white PV wire is used I believe. Chris</font><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/5/2024 4:22 PM, Bryan Norkunas via
RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">White PV wire was something we used to sell
often, but that demand has dropped off in the last 5 years or
so and always wondered why.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for sharing William</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sunny Regards,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
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Norkunas
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
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Inc.
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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Milton Ave Ste 1D<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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923-3000 office<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
RE-wrenches <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a>
on behalf of William Miller via RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 5, 2024 12:53:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> William Miller <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"><william@millersolar.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel
frame grounding</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">Friends:</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">On
a related subject, I was researching the question: What
color should my grounded PV conductor be?
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">History:</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">In
the beginning, negative leads were always black.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">When
it became apparent that negative PV leads were indeed
grounded, the requirement to have them white or grey
became enforced per 200.6(A)(3).</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">When
transformerless inverters were implemented it was assumed
the negative was floating, so white/grey was no longer
acceptable.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">Then
the NEC recognized that some leads were kind of grounded,
not solidly, but through some components, either OCPD,
resistors, sensor or a combination. A new term was
created, functionally grounded. This grounding was most
often done to implement ground fault detection and
interruption, or GFDI. I always assumed that if PV
equipment had GFDI it had to feature a grounded polarity,
most often indirectly, or functionally.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">Grounded
conductors need to be white or grey. Therefore we are
back to needing grey/white, most often for the negative
lead.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">I
wanted to verify if the Sol-Arc PV inputs established a
grounded lead. They have GFDI so I assumed it likely they
did. In order to verify, I called Sol-Arc. Their tech
support had no idea what I was talking about. They did
not know the term functionally grounded and could not
verify if their equipment established a ground connection,
solid or otherwise, to either polarity.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">This
distinction applies here because it may help determine
what is causing the GFDI fault. I can’t tell you for sure
if one side of the PV circuit is functionally grounded,
but if it is, grounding it elsewhere will defeat the GFDI
and may cause nuisance tripping.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">Does
anyone know if Sol-Arc PV inputs have a functional ground
bond?</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">Side
note: I called my local Greentech distributor, who sells
plenty of Sol-Arc inverters and asked if they carried
white PV wire. They said none of their customers are
asking for white PV wire. I suspect they should be using
white for negative leads. I can’t confirm that because
Sol-Arc can’t tell me it the PV circuits are functionally
grounded or not. Frustrating!</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">Fortunately
the manual for Outback charge controllers specifically
says the negative lead is functionally grounded. So if
you are installing Outback CCs you must use white or
grey. PV-Cables sells white PV wire.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">Confusing?
Yeah, a bit. But as my local roofing companies say:
“Solar? It can’t be that complicated!”</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">William
Miller</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">Miller
Solar</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d">CA
Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"; color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jason Szumlanski<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel
frame grounding</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Can anybody clarify the following
instruction from the manual?</p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">"GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any
GND outside the circuit via 12AWG wire"</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Does this mean do not connect the
array equipment grounding conductor to the grounding
terminal in the inverter? Where would be the suggested
place to connect the equipment grounding conductor, and
why does it make a difference? It would still be
electrically bonded to the grounding terminal in the
inverter. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">I'm asking because I do, in fact,
have an equipment grounding conductor from the array
connected to the ground terminal in the inverter at a
home. I am getting an F08 GFDI fault. The manual doesn't
say anything about the DC side with respect to this
error. It suggests it is an AC current leakage to
ground. But Sol-Ark tech support suggested that I
disconnect the PV to rule it out as a source of the
fault.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Jason Szumlanski </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Florida Solar Design Group </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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