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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dave:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I have thought about this dilemma pretty carefully in the past. I have come up with a line of logic that works for me. I will try to keep the explanation short but there is some nuance to it that might take some ‘splaning.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">As a licensed electrical contractor it is my responsibility to design the systems I install, with certain exceptions. I don’t know if this is the correct term, but I call it design/build. My exposure is covered and my requirements are met if I have a general liability policy and the required bonding any contractor would. Coverage for errors and omissions is not required.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If the scope of the project is complicated beyond some level then the services of a PE will be required and a wet-stamped plan may be needed, or at least sensible to provide. The client or the building department may require this added service.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The level of complexity at which external, licensed design services are needed is subjective. Most electricians don’t need a PE to draw up a new or replacement service or the details of configuring branch circuits, to name a few examples. The requirements can be deduced from the particulars of the project and the language of the NEC. If the contractor is inexperienced, then more design help is needed. If the contractor is more experienced, then more complex projects can be designed in-house. I decide for myself if I am qualified to do the design work, or not.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Before a bid is prepared some level of design needs to be accomplished in order to define the scope of the project, specify the materials and predict the labor required. My preference is to design the heck out of any job so I don’t get any unpleasant, expensive surprises once the project commences. I don’t do this level of design work for free. There is always a work order for design time. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">However I do not always get the contract to perform the physical work. The bid price may be too high or the project may not go forward for any number of reasons.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Unless there is some proprietary information in the design, once the customer pays my design fee the customer owns that design and is entitled to deliverables in the form of drawings, calculations, bill of materials, etc. If I hand over those documents but do not install the work, I am essentially working design only, not design/build. However because the intent was to design a project I would build, I don’t worry about that detail. I assume no liability for any part of the project unless I am hired to build it. I have no control over what the client does with the design information once I turn it over.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Under this logic I am pretty comfortable providing occasional design-only services as long as I could demonstrate, if asked, that I was operating in good faith on a design/build project. This intent can be satisfied by the language of the work order, specifying the client will provide an opportunity for you to bid on the work in hopes of winning the contract.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">This approach might work for you or at least give you something to think about. Not everyone is willing to take the same risks. Sorry about all of the words. I could not explain this approach any more concisely.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller Solar</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/"><span style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA Lic. 773985</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 10, 2024 3:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Cc:</b> Dave Tedeyan<br><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Hi All, </p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal with this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some design work for a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect a system and give my professional opinion about it. These are two separate work situations. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we should have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is not something that is covered under our general liability (contractors) insurance. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional liability" (errors and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one or two designs a year, we are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. This would be meant to cover us if I make a mistake in the design that leads to some sort of failure or fire.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get essentially a home inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per year. Again, this is something that we do a handful of times per year. This insurance is meant to cover us if I inspect a system and miss something that then ends up being a problem or a hazard. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that I may be fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have something in my service contracts that would essentially say something like "we will do this work to the best of our ability", and then if something does go wrong and the homeowner takes us to court, it is upon them to prove that we missed something that a reasonable person would have caught. My business manager does not like this because we could still have lots of lawyer fees and have to show up in court if we were to get sued, even if the problem was not caused by a lack of diligence on our part.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or do you just not do designs and inspections unless you are actually turning some wrenches on the site so that your general liability insurance covers your work? Or, is this a case of our insurance agent putting ungrounded fears in our head?</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your thoughts.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Dave</p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmailsignatureprefix">-- </span></p><div><div><div><div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="919" style="width:393.75pt;border-collapse:collapse"><tr><td width="219" rowspan="2" valign="top" style="width:93.75pt;border:none;border-right:solid #ecbd00 1.0pt;padding:0in 7.5pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#444444"><a href="https://www.sungineersolar.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#337ab7;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="105" id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://sungineersolar.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Logo-Image-Only-1.png" alt="Logo"></span></a></span></p></td><td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 7.5pt"><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px"><tr><td width="700" valign="top" style="width:300.0pt;padding:0in 0in 3.75pt 7.5pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#ecbd00">Dave Tedeyan, P.E.<br>Owner | Sungineer Solar</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span></p></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" style="padding:3.75pt 0in 3.75pt 7.5pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:12.75pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#ecbd00">p: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">he | him | his</span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#ecbd00"><br>a: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">1653 Slaterville Rd.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> <span style="color:black">| Ithaca, NY 14850</span><br><b><span style="color:#ecbd00">w:</span></b><a href="http://www.sungineersolar.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:black"> www.sungineersolar.com</span></a><br><b><span style="color:#ecbd00">c:</span></b><span style="color:black"> (607) 270-0370</span></span></p></td></tr></table></td><td style="border:none" width="0"><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></td></tr><tr style="height:11.5pt"><td style="height:11.5pt;border:none" width="0" height="27"></td></tr></table><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>