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<pre><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Brad,<br /><br />I would add to what you wrote that some ventilation measures were required on both types of battery below in a failure mode.<br />That was my experience with them back in the day.<br /></span> </pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
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<p id="reply-intro">On 2024-02-29 8:54 am, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches wrote:</p>
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<div dir="ltr">The C&D flooded calcium alloy batteries are indeed a good choice for float service backup batteries if flooded batteries are acceptable for the installation. I've seen these and other similar batteries last far longer than 20 years. Anyone remember the round AT&T cells?
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<div>I've always promoted the East Penn Unigy II AGM batteries for the same reasons, except they are sealed instead of flooded. They are also 20 year batteries in float backup operation. They have extremely low self discharge so maintain grid tie efficiency. They take up much less floor space than the flooded versions, and don't require acid control or ventilation measures. </div>
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<div>Brad Bassett (ret.)</div>
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<div class="v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 6:32 AM Todd Cory via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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<p style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;">You are welcome!<br /><br />With the recent thread disparaging the "new and better" LFP batteries, I thought I would remind folks about a ~100 year old battery chemistry that Windy Danoff originally introduced me to. These have been, and still are the mainstay for telecom and commercial power generation backup.<br /><br />Note that these are considered "shallow cycle" (50%) batteries, so not appropriate for off grid, but they are the perfect battery for grid tied systems which float 99% of the time. They are very low self discharge, last 20 years, and basically consume no water... which is why I suggested these as a possible solution to Bill's thread about battery watering.<br /><br />In ~4 years, when my existing 16 year old set of Surette FC420's need replacing, I will happily replace them with the C&D version. I had considered LFP, but the problems wrenches are having, combined with the expense has me sticking with what works. The only real advantage of LFP is lower weight/ kWh, but for stationary batteries that doesn't matter, plus flooded lead calcium's are about 1/3 the price. <br /><br />Todd<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /></p>
<p style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><br /><br />On Thursday, February 29, 2024 1:26am, "david quattro via RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> said:<br /><br /></p>
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<div>THANK YOU TODD</div>
<div> for teaching me about an existing battery chemistry I didn't previously know about. Awesome!<br /><br />
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<p style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;">David Quattro<br />CA License # 954020. C-10, C-46<br />ph (415) 312-2661<br /><a href="http://www.quattrosolar.com/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">www.quattrosolar.com</a></p>
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<div class="v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 10:33 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Todd:</span></p>
<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Thanks but I think you need to reread the question. I asked for input on how to more easily check electrolyte liquid level in flooded batteries. These are batteries that are already in place in multiple locations. </span></p>
<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">I got responses on how to fill batteries or what type of batteries to purchase. I am not going to advise my clients to replace perfectly good batteries. I also have a pretty good <a style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;" href="https://www.phlsci.com/product-lines/battery-watering-gun/model-gun-x/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">tool</a> for filling batteries. </span></p>
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<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Maybe we should just let this thread die...</span></p>
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<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">William</span></p>
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<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Miller Solar</span></p>
<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><a style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif;" href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: blue;">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
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<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;"> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <strong style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">On Behalf Of </strong>Todd Cory via RE-wrenches<br /><strong style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">Sent:</strong> Wednesday, February 28, 2024 10:19 PM<br /><strong style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">To:</strong> RE-wrenches<br /><strong style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">Cc:</strong> <a style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;" href="mailto:toddcory@finestplanet.com" rel="noreferrer">toddcory@finestplanet.com</a><br /><strong style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">Subject:</strong> Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolyte level measurement</span></p>
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<p style="padding: 0px; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;"><a style="font-family: Georgia,serif;" href="https://www.cdtechno.com/search?query=lead+calcium&refinementList=%5B%5D&page=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.cdtechno.com/search?query=lead+calcium&refinementList=%5B%5D&page=1</a></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0px 0in 12pt; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;"><a style="font-family: Georgia,serif;" href="https://www.cdtechno.com/search?query=lead+calcium&refinementList=%5B%5D&page=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><br />Lead-Calcium</a><br /><br /><img src="cid:170923119465e0cc5a6e219647055889@sti.net" /><br /><br /></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0px 0in 12pt; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;"><br /><br />On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 9:37pm, "William Miller via RE-wrenches" <<a style="font-family: Georgia,serif;" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> said:</span></p>
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<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">Todd:</span></p>
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<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px 0px 12pt; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">This is about batteries that exist. </span></p>
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<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">William Miller<br />Miller Solar.com<br />805-438-5600<br /><a style="font-family: Georgia,serif;" href="http://www.millersolar.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
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<p class="v1MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 1:23</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">PM Todd Cory via RE-wrenches <<a style="font-family: Georgia,serif;" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0px 0in 12pt; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">Another option for grid tied with battery based systems, is to use flooded lead calcium batteries which last 20 years and only need about 20 ml/ cell, added every 3 years.<br /><br />Todd</span></p>
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