<font face="georgia" size="2"><p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;">You are welcome!<br /><br />With the recent thread disparaging the "new and better" LFP batteries, I thought I would remind folks about a ~100 year old battery chemistry that Windy Danoff originally introduced me to. These have been, and still are the mainstay for telecom and commercial power generation backup.<br /><br /> Note that these are considered "shallow cycle" (50%) batteries, so not appropriate for off grid, but they are the perfect battery for grid tied systems which float 99% of the time. They are very low self discharge, last 20 years, and basically consume no water... which is why I suggested these as a possible solution to Bill's thread about battery watering.<br /><br />In ~4 years, when my existing 16 year old set of Surette FC420's need replacing, I will happily replace them with the C&D version. I had considered LFP, but the problems wrenches are having, combined with the expense has me sticking with what works. The only real advantage of LFP is lower weight/ kWh, but for stationary batteries that doesn’t matter, plus flooded lead calcium’s are about 1/3 the price. <br /><br />Todd<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /></p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><br /><br />On Thursday, February 29, 2024 1:26am, "david quattro via RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> said:<br /><br /></p>
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<div>THANK YOU TODD</div>
<div>  for teaching me about an existing battery chemistry I didn’t previously know about. Awesome!<br /><br />
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;">David Quattro<br />CA License # 954020. C-10, C-46<br />ph (415) 312-2661<br /><a href="http://www.quattrosolar.com/" target="_blank">www.quattrosolar.com</a></p>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 10:33 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Todd:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Thanks but I think you need to reread the question.  I asked for input on how to more easily check electrolyte liquid level in flooded batteries.  These are batteries that are already in place in multiple locations.  </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">I got responses on how to fill batteries or what type of batteries to purchase.  I am not going to advise my clients to replace perfectly good batteries.  I also have a pretty good <a style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;" href="https://www.phlsci.com/product-lines/battery-watering-gun/model-gun-x/" target="_blank">tool</a> for filling batteries.  </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;">Maybe we should just let this thread die…</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;"> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <strong style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">On Behalf Of </strong>Todd Cory via RE-wrenches<br /><strong style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">Sent:</strong> Wednesday, February 28, 2024 10:19 PM<br /><strong style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">To:</strong> RE-wrenches<br /><strong style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">Cc:</strong> <a style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;" href="mailto:toddcory@finestplanet.com" target="_blank">toddcory@finestplanet.com</a><br /><strong style="font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">Subject:</strong> Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolyte level measurement</span></p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;"><a style="font-family: Georgia,serif;" href="https://www.cdtechno.com/search?query=lead+calcium&refinementList=%5B%5D&page=1" target="_blank">https://www.cdtechno.com/search?query=lead+calcium&refinementList=%5B%5D&page=1</a></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;"><a style="font-family: Georgia,serif;" href="https://www.cdtechno.com/search?query=lead+calcium&refinementList=%5B%5D&page=1" target="_blank"><br />Lead-Calcium</a><br /><br /><img src="cid:@7d3b80d01ce50c5a_0.1" alt=""><br /><br /></span></p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;"><br /><br />On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 9:37pm, "William Miller via RE-wrenches" <<a style="font-family: Georgia,serif;" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> said:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">Todd:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">This is about batteries that exist. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">William Miller<br />Miller Solar.com<br />805-438-5600<br /><a style="font-family: Georgia,serif;" href="http://www.millersolar.com" target="_blank">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 10pt; overflow-wrap: break-word;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 1:23</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">PM Todd Cory via RE-wrenches <<a style="font-family: Georgia,serif;" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia,serif;">Another option for grid tied with battery based systems, is to use flooded lead calcium batteries which last 20 years and only need about 20 ml/ cell, added every 3 years.<br /><br />Todd</span></p>
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