<div dir="ltr">I agree with Roy and Jay. No failures since exclusively using the auto cube relay triggered by any of the Outback relays in the inverter or charge controllers. I'm having good luck<div>keeping a Magnum based system running remotely and on auto using an old MX60 I had hanging around it for its aux 12v output relay to trigger the the cube and starting a Generac EcoGen 14 k. All I can see on Optics is battery voltage and temperature at the water pipes using the battery temp sensor and generator hours from the AGS set ip as a DC Genset. All I need to know.... pipes won't freeze and the generator will start. (PS I can use the temp sensor as I am not using the Outback for battery charging as not recommended for LFP batteries.</div><div>If the generator needs 3 wire start, such as the Honda 6 or 7K propane generator. I use the Atkinson Mini autostart module triggered by the cube relay. Only one failure an it was the Atkinson unit.</div><div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Liberation Serif","serif""><span style="font-family:"Arial;Helvetica;sans-serif","serif"">John Blittersdorf</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Liberation Serif","serif""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Arial;Helvetica;sans-serif","serif";color:rgb(80,0,80)">NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Liberation Serif","serif""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Arial;Helvetica;sans-serif","serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Liberation Serif","serif""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial;Helvetica;sans-serif","serif"">CV Wind Service </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Arial;Helvetica;sans-serif","serif"">(and solar)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Liberation Serif","serif""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Arial;Helvetica;sans-serif","serif"">200 West Road</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Liberation Serif","serif""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Arial;Helvetica;sans-serif","serif"">N Chittenden, VT 05763</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Liberation Serif","serif""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Arial;Helvetica;sans-serif","serif"">802-770-8625</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Liberation Serif","serif""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Arial;Helvetica;sans-serif","serif""><a href="http://www.offgridvermont.com">www.offgridvermont.com</a></span></p><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 7:13 PM Roy Butler via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<font size="2">Jay,<br>
<br>
This has been my go to relay for the last 21 years, no failures.
In all sorts of environmental conditions.<br>
Unlike the generators they are supposed to start...but I
digress...<br>
</font>
<pre cols="72">Roy Butler
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t.
“The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it.”
Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message,
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
</pre>
<div>On 2/9/2024 7:00 PM, Jay via
RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I would use a sealed relay. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">The SS one should work. Or a 12v cube relay like in
cars. </div>
<div dir="ltr">Super cheap and reliable </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
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Changeover Mini Relay - 5 Pins, 12
V, 20/30 A - Single</font></a></div>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Feb 9, 2024, at 12:55 PM, William
Miller via RE-wrenches
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dan:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
think a solid state relay is indicated here. There are
many out there. Here is a link to one at Digikey:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href="https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/wago-corporation/859-739/15520805" target="_blank">https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/wago-corporation/859-739/15520805</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">The
datasheet (attached) shows operating limits of -25 to 70
degree C. There are other options at Digikey that work
down to -40 degrees C.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Good
luck,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">William</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Miller
Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">CA
Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,"sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,"sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dan Fink via RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 9, 2024 9:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dan Fink<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] In search of better
generator start relay for Outback system</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Esteemed Wrenches - Finally
successfully troubleshot an intermittent AGS problem
that has been nagging one of my remote-grid clients for
1.5 winters now. Of course it's a 4-hour drive from my
office.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">During winter snowstorms (when they
need the AGS the most of course) the generator
had only about 50:50 chance of starting. So I'd travel
to the site (sometimes just the client would do it and
I'd guide him by phone), pull up the Gen menu on the
Mate 3S, hit ON and it wouldn't start. No bueno. Walk
up to the generator (propane with Honda engine) and
verify it's on Auto. Start it with the main switch to
ON, starts right up, so not a gen battery problem. Run
it for an hour or so, stop it with the switch on the
gen, put it back to Auto, and everything works
perfectly from Mate 3S AGS for 1-2 days, including
remote start from OpticsRE. Then the problem
(sometimes) comes up again when nobody is there.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I just happened to hit the site at
exactly the right time last week right as a big
snowstorm was moving in, and was finally able to
figure it out with really good raingear and a
multimeter: The Outback Flexware remote gen start
relay <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(17,17,17);background:rgb(250,250,250)">OBR-16-DIN
was icing up internally, </span>I had added it in
the gen compartment when we upgraded the client from
an old Trace SW to an Outback (SW had a big AGS
relay, Outback sent a 12VDC signal to trigger the
external relay we added).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">DIAG - new Outback <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(17,17,17);background:rgb(250,250,250)">OBR-16-DIN
relay would get frosty internally when high humidity
snowstorms would move in, that's why it sometimes
didn't work from the Mate 3S or OpticsRE. Run the
gen for an hour, the internal gen compartment warms
up, the frost melts off of the relay, then all the
AGS from Mate 3S and OpticsRE works fine.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Have any of all y'all run into this
problem, and is there a more reliable relay to use
that won't ice up? not outside exposed to weather, but
inside the outside gen enclosure. I have zero space
available in the VFX MNDC enclosure in the house to
put in the Flexware AGS relay, it would need a
separate enclosure.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The easiest solution I can see is
just find a relay to fit into the gen compartment that
does the same as the Outback version, but doesn't ice
up.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance for any and all
suggestions.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(34,34,34);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0in">Dan
Fink</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif";color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(34,34,34)">Owner,
Buckville Energy
Consulting LLC</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(34,34,34)">IREC
Certified Instructor for
PV and Small Wind
Installation</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(34,34,34)">NABCEP
Certified PV System
Inspector</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(34,34,34)">NABCEP
PV Associate</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="mailto:dan.fink@greendustrialtraining.com" target="_blank">d</a><a href="mailto:anbob88@gmail.com" target="_blank">anbob88@gmail.com</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(34,34,34)">970-672-4342</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
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</div>
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