<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <font size="2">Jay,<br>
      <br>
      This has been my go to relay for the last 21 years, no failures.
      In all sorts of environmental conditions.<br>
      Unlike the generators they are supposed to start...but I
      digress...<br>
    </font>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Roy Butler
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC

Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t.

“The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it.”

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

                
</pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/9/2024 7:00 PM, Jay via
      RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:65478A5D-2162-4B4F-BDAB-D1ED94ADE967@gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">I would use a sealed relay. </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">The SS one should work. Or a 12v cube relay like in
        cars.  </div>
      <div dir="ltr">Super cheap and reliable </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div style="display: block;" class="">
          <div
style="-webkit-user-select: all; -webkit-user-drag: element; display: inline-block;"
            class="apple-rich-link" draggable="true" role="link"
data-url="https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-0332209150-Fuel-Injection-Relay/dp/B004Z0U1IW/ref=asc_df_B004Z0U1IW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366288796258&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9637219655584602788&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030399&hvtargid=pla-310538454416&psc=1&mcid=e8c1e56604c837b8a724b0ee0121156d&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=83058288464&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366288796258&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9637219655584602788&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030399&hvtargid=pla-310538454416"><a
style="border-radius:10px;font-family:-apple-system, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;display:block;-webkit-user-select:none;width:300px;user-select:none;-webkit-user-modify:read-only;user-modify:read-only;overflow:hidden;text-decoration:none;"
              class="lp-rich-link" rel="nofollow"
href="https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-0332209150-Fuel-Injection-Relay/dp/B004Z0U1IW/ref=asc_df_B004Z0U1IW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366288796258&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9637219655584602788&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030399&hvtargid=pla-310538454416&psc=1&mcid=e8c1e56604c837b8a724b0ee0121156d&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=83058288464&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366288796258&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9637219655584602788&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030399&hvtargid=pla-310538454416"
              dir="ltr" role="button" draggable="false" width="300"
              moz-do-not-send="true">
              <table
style="table-layout:fixed;border-collapse:collapse;width:300px;background-color:#DFDFE1;font-family:-apple-system, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"
                class="lp-rich-link-emailBaseTable" width="300"
                cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
                <tbody>
                  <tr>
                    <td vertical-align="center" align="center"><img
style="width:300px;filter:brightness(0.97);height:157px;"
                        draggable="false"
                        class="lp-rich-link-mediaImage"
alt="31CBOICBnYL._SR600,315_PIWhiteStrip,BottomLeft,0,35_PIStarRatingFOURANDHALF,BottomLeft,360,-6_SR600,315_ZA892,445,290,400,400,AmazonEmberBold,12,4,0,0,5_SCLZZZZZZZ_FMpng_BG255,255,255.jpg"
src="cid:part1.o0BryJNm.0mL3i4FX@four-winds-energy.com" width="300"
                        height="157"></td>
                  </tr>
                  <tr>
                    <td vertical-align="center">
                      <table
style="font-family:-apple-system, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;table-layout:fixed;background-color:rgba(223, 223, 225, 1);"
                        class="lp-rich-link-captionBar" width="300"
                        cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
                        bgcolor="#DFDFE1">
                        <tbody>
                          <tr>
                            <td style="padding:8px 0px 8px 0px;"
class="lp-rich-link-captionBar-textStackItem">
                              <div
style="max-width:100%;margin:0px 16px 0px 16px;overflow:hidden;"
class="lp-rich-link-captionBar-textStack">
                                <div
style="word-wrap:break-word;font-weight:700;font-size:12px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;text-align:left;"
class="lp-rich-link-captionBar-textStack-topCaption-leading"><a
                                    rel="nofollow"
href="https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-0332209150-Fuel-Injection-Relay/dp/B004Z0U1IW/ref=asc_df_B004Z0U1IW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366288796258&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9637219655584602788&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030399&hvtargid=pla-310538454416&psc=1&mcid=e8c1e56604c837b8a724b0ee0121156d&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=83058288464&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366288796258&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9637219655584602788&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030399&hvtargid=pla-310538454416"
                                    style="text-decoration: none"
                                    draggable="false"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"><font
                                      style="color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"
                                      color="#000000">BOSCH 0332209150
                                      Changeover Mini Relay - 5 Pins, 12
                                      V, 20/30 A - Single</font></a></div>
                                <div
style="word-wrap:break-word;font-weight:600;font-size:11px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;text-align:left;"
class="lp-rich-link-captionBar-textStack-bottomCaption-leading"><a
                                    rel="nofollow"
href="https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-0332209150-Fuel-Injection-Relay/dp/B004Z0U1IW/ref=asc_df_B004Z0U1IW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366288796258&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9637219655584602788&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030399&hvtargid=pla-310538454416&psc=1&mcid=e8c1e56604c837b8a724b0ee0121156d&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=83058288464&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366288796258&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9637219655584602788&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030399&hvtargid=pla-310538454416"
                                    style="text-decoration: none"
                                    draggable="false"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"><font
style="color: rgba(60, 60, 67, 0.6);" color="#A2A2A9">amazon.com</font></a></div>
                              </div>
                            </td>
                          </tr>
                        </tbody>
                      </table>
                    </td>
                  </tr>
                </tbody>
              </table>
            </a></div>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
        <blockquote type="cite">On Feb 9, 2024, at 12:55 PM, William
          Miller via RE-wrenches
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> wrote:<br>
          <br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
            content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
          <meta name="Generator"
            content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)">
          <style>@font-face { font-family: Calibri; }@font-face { font-family: Tahoma; }@font-face { font-family: Verdana; }p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; }a:link, span.MsoHyperlink { color: blue; text-decoration: underline; }a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { color: purple; text-decoration: underline; }span.EmailStyle17 { font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); }.MsoChpDefault { font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; }div.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1; }</style>
          <div class="WordSection1">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dan:</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
                think a solid state relay is indicated here.  There are
                many out there.  Here is a link to one at Digikey:</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
href="https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/wago-corporation/859-739/15520805"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/wago-corporation/859-739/15520805</a></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
                datasheet (attached) shows operating limits of -25 to 70
                degree C.  There are other options at Digikey that work
                down to -40 degrees C.</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Good
                luck,</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller
                Solar</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395
                Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
                  href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
                  moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA
                Lic. 773985</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
                RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
                <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dan Fink via RE-wrenches<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 9, 2024 9:28 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
                <b>Cc:</b> Dan Fink<br>
                <b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] In search of better
                generator start relay for Outback system</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Esteemed Wrenches - Finally
                successfully troubleshot an intermittent AGS problem
                that has been nagging one of my remote-grid clients for
                1.5 winters now. Of course it's a 4-hour drive from my
                office.</p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">During winter snowstorms (when they
                  need the AGS the most of course) the generator
                  had only about 50:50 chance of starting. So I'd travel
                  to the site (sometimes just the client would do it and
                  I'd guide him by phone), pull up the Gen menu on the
                  Mate 3S, hit ON and it wouldn't start. No bueno. Walk
                  up to the generator (propane with Honda engine) and
                  verify it's on Auto. Start it with the main switch to
                  ON, starts right up, so not a gen battery problem. Run
                  it for an hour or so, stop it with the switch on the
                  gen, put it back to Auto, and everything works
                  perfectly from Mate 3S AGS for 1-2 days, including
                  remote start from OpticsRE. Then the problem
                  (sometimes) comes up again when nobody is there.</p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">I just happened to hit the site at
                  exactly the right time last week right as a big
                  snowstorm was moving in, and was finally able to
                  figure it out with really good raingear and a
                  multimeter: The Outback Flexware remote gen start
                  relay <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#111111;background:#fafafa">OBR-16-DIN
                    was icing up internally, </span>I had added it in
                  the gen compartment when we upgraded the client from
                  an old Trace SW  to an Outback (SW had a big AGS
                  relay, Outback sent a 12VDC signal to trigger the
                  external relay we added).</p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">DIAG - new Outback <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#111111;background:#fafafa">OBR-16-DIN
                    relay would get frosty internally when high humidity
                    snowstorms would move in, that's why it sometimes
                    didn't work from the Mate 3S or OpticsRE. Run the
                    gen for an hour, the internal gen compartment warms
                    up, the frost melts off of the relay, then all the
                    AGS from Mate 3S and OpticsRE works fine.</span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Have any of all y'all run into this
                  problem, and is there a more reliable relay to use
                  that won't ice up? not outside exposed to weather, but
                  inside the outside gen enclosure. I have zero space
                  available in the VFX  MNDC enclosure in the house to
                  put in the Flexware AGS relay, it would need a
                  separate enclosure.</p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">The easiest solution I can see is
                  just find a relay to fit into the gen compartment that
                  does the same as the Outback version, but doesn't ice
                  up.</p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance for any and all
                  suggestions.</p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Dan
                                              Fink</span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Owner,
                                                Buckville Energy
                                                Consulting LLC</span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">IREC
                                                Certified Instructor for
                                                PV and Small Wind
                                                Installation</span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">NABCEP
                                                Certified PV System
                                                Inspector</span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">NABCEP
                                                PV Associate</span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><a
href="mailto:dan.fink@greendustrialtraining.com" target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true">d</a><a
href="mailto:anbob88@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">anbob88@gmail.com</a></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">970-672-4342</span></p>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                           </p>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div><Wago SS Relay.pdf></div>
          <span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
          <span>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br>
          <span></span><br>
          <span>Pay optional member dues here: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
          <span></span><br>
          <span>List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
          <span></span><br>
          <span>Change listserver email address & settings:</span><br>
          <span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
          <span></span><br>
          <span>There are two list archives for searching. When one
            doesn't work, try the other:</span><br>
          <span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a></span><br>
          <span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
          <span></span><br>
          <span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br>
          <span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span><br>
          <span></span><br>
          <span>Check out or update participant bios:</span><br>
          <span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
          <span></span><br>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a>

List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>

Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>

Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>