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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Jay:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I think that is what usually happens. During one occurrence 2 of the 5 batteries did shut down.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller Solar</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/"><span style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA Lic. 773985</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Jay [mailto:<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 12, 2023 3:08 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com">william@millersolar.com</a>; RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Interesting </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The high voltage disconnect is 58.4v. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Reconnect is 54.4v. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Maybe if the spike is fast enough the inverter trips off before the battery shuts off?</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Jay</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Nov 12, 2023, at 2:35 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Jay:</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Good question. I assumed some kind of FET circuit but that is only my assumption. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">However an open relay exhibits some fairly high impedance. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The symptoms indicate the SI shuts down but the batteries remain connected. Something allows 69 volts on the battery terminals…<br clear="all"></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>William Miller<br>Miller Solar.com<br>805-438-5600<br><a href="http://www.millersolar.com">www.millersolar.com</a></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Maybe someone else knows differently but it was explained to me that the fortress batteries have a relay that disconnects the battery if the voltage gets too high or low. There isn’t any electronic device to change battery impedance besides what the actual cells are doing. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Jay</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Nov 12, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Regarding the SI Inverters, for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the charger over under charge issue.</p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Fun times </p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Friends:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny Islands and Sunny Boys.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting of SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters. This discrepancy did not diminish over time. The discrepancy caused unacceptable charging and generator operations.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition. I believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the voltage spike I have been seeing. I was able to measure these conditions myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter and perform some analysis. It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the SI (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift Power Control. This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor control over battery charging to having no control over battery charging.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I have documented my research <a href="https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/36_SIFortress/36_SunnyIslandFortressIntegration.html#Inhibit" target="_blank">here</a>. There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information. I appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply). I am the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to figure out things for himself. I have taught myself how to evaluate those log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject. In the meantime, if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the case study. I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any integrator that wants that knowledge.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Thanks in advance for any insight. I hope I am wrong about this and I am just missing something. I also hope revealing my headaches will help someone someday…</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">William</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Miller Solar</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">805-438-5600</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">CA Lic. 773985</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change list server email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>There are two list archives for searching. 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