<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Staubli’s manual says they shall be capped when unmated. How many mods fresh off the pallet have you seen with caps on them? <div><br></div><div>Definitely lots of failures result from dirt and moisture intrusion, as well as from them being poorly put together (whether in the field or in the factory). </div><div><br></div><div>My opinion is that we have treated this with too much of a “plug and play“ attitude (both manufacturers and installers); that the process for making connectors in the field has too many opportunities to do it wrong (allowing for plausible deniability by the OEM); and that as an industry we should be pushing for/demanding better “solutions.” </div><div><br></div><div><img alt="image0.jpeg" src="cid:4E757966-B9D1-4F53-A183-7236E1997C29-L0-001"><br></div><div><br><div dir="ltr">Brian</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Nov 10, 2023, at 8:40 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">I’ve wondered what other variables are at work given that mostly these connectors work as they should. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I’d like to see them come with plugs covering the openings. This would keep dirt, salt air, moisture, etc out until they are connected. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">As to if there were lots of failures with SW modules then I wonder if whoever built the whips had poor quality control. Might be they were not seated properly or dirty or the crimp they used wasn’t calibrated correctly or they were stored in a salt environment creating corrosion or something like that. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I looked up the specs last night on the mc4 and it’s like 30+ amps depending on the wire, pretty impressive </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jay</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Nov 10, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto">Mine was a roof mount. We had very few SolarWorld projects. In fact, this might be our only one.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 8:10 AM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I'd be curious to know of the connector failures y'all have experienced, were the majority of these roof mounts?<div>Just wondering if with better air flow like that of a pole/ground mount, if that helped to minimize connector failure.</div><div><br></div><div>Christopher</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 1:21 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<p>Ray,</p>
<p> Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground
mount system, 3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler
air, fully engaged MC4 factory connectors PV to PV connectors with
SW285's, not passing current, melted. No attempt to contact SW
just made up new connectors. </p>
<p> My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made
up by the bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs,
pencils, chicken nuggets, etc) you're going to get some duds. In
20+ years of installing PVs with factory made-up connectors, I've
only seen this happen 2-3 times. Installing in the mountains we
no doubt use ground mount much more often than most installs in
urban areas which would make a hot, melted connector possibly more
of an issue a couple inches above a comp or wood roof. We've
never seen any connectors fail beyond the melted/deformed but
still "contained" stage .</p>
<p> Back when SW was first transitioning from one
connector to another, I remember them saying they (I think it was
UTX and MC or was it UTX and Amphenol?) were compatible. We NEVER
mixed connectors despite their claim.<br>
</p>
<p>Bill<br>
</p>
<pre cols="72">Feather River Solar Electric
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up</pre>
<div>On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via
RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors,
not the UTX.</p>
<p>Ray<br>
</p>
<div>On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them,
sounds like about the right timeframe.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="display:block">
<div style="display:inline-block" role="link"><a style="border-radius:10px;font-family:-apple-system,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;display:block;width:300px;overflow:hidden;text-decoration:none" rel="nofollow noreferrer" href="https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/" dir="ltr" role="button" width="300" target="_blank">
<table style="table-layout:fixed;border-collapse:collapse;width:300px;background-color:rgb(233,233,235);font-family:-apple-system,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" width="300" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
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<div style="max-width:100%;margin:0px 16px;overflow:hidden">
<div style="font-weight:500;font-size:12px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;text-align:left"><a rel="nofollow noreferrer" href="https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,0)" color="#000000">BREAKING:
SolarWorld recalls PV modules
with Amphenol connectors</font></a></div>
<div style="font-weight:400;font-size:11px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;text-align:left"><a rel="nofollow noreferrer" href="https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><font style="color:rgba(60,60,67,0.6)" color="#A2A2A9">pv-magazine-usa.com</font></a></div>
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</tbody>
</table>
</td>
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</tbody>
</table>
</a></div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Brian</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray
Walters via RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p>12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC
connectors might. I just went back on a 7 yr old
Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC connector
(module to module). It got quite crispy, deforming and
bubbling the plastic on both sides of the connection.
It was still passing current; I didn't get a chance to
measure the volt drop. It was completely plugged in, so
not an installation issue. </p>
<p>This was not one of our connectors made up in the
field, these were Solarworld factory connectors on both
sides, same model modules. That also means no mismatch
of "MC4" connector type. </p>
<p>10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+ hotter
than ambient temp, all are tough on connectors. I
predict more connector failures as module current
ratings increase.</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<div>On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn
Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good luck trying to convince your
customer that their house caught on fire because of
a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility
for it…<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It may be an out to shift the
blame, but it only makes everybody get some on them…<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>William Miller via
RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> William Miller <a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><william@millersolar.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing
for high current modules? NEC
interpretation/guidance?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">George:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Appliance
manufacturers have their own requirements that are
not the same as the NEC requirements. As long as
you are not modifying the manufactured assembly
you are not responsible for compliance of that
appliance. By appliance, I mean the solar module,
microinverter, etc.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">William
Miller</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Miller
Solar</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">805-438-5600</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.millersolar.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">CA
Lic. 773985</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>George McClellan via
RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Cc:</b> George McClellan<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for
high current modules? NEC
interpretation/guidance?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Team;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">With the move to larger cells,
some modules have an Isc that is pushing the limits
of 12 AWG wire. If I apply the rule of 156% (or
125% solar derate*125% continuous load derate) to an
18 Amp Isc module this will exceed the 25A that a 12
AWG wire can carry. I understand that the homeruns
will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), but do the
solar module cables (from junction box to MC4) also
need to be larger? Any guidance or reference
material would be greatly appreciated.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thx,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">George McClellan | Senior
Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4pt">330 James Way Ste
150<span lang="UK"> | </span>Pismo Beach, CA
93449<span lang="UK"> | </span>USA<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 |
Fax +1 805 357 6104 <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:navy"><a href="http://www.recgroup.com/" title="http://www.recgroup.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.recgroup.com</a> </span><span style="color:black">| <a href="mailto:shannon.kent@recgroup.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">george.mcclellan@recgroup.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<hr width="100%" size="3" align="center"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray"><br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Chris Schaefer’s<br></font></span><img src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zwIEzRtOZdJBisBPW2ba9BZwLKpocRcDBtPtw_dLzSM8MNthtmnA5rIuBZ_I3mSXj7FKHtwYk" data-unique-identifier=""><br><i><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span style="font-size:9pt">Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 </span><span style="font-size:12px"><br></span></span></i><i style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:10pt"><font color="#1f497d"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">5115
S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424<br></font></font></span></i><i style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="color:blue">www.solarandwindfx.com</span></a> ~ E-mail: <span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></span></i></p><p style="text-align:center"><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><img src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4x-VMx3KNrBUjGRGaM4iKmHJ8KxC99V1SUtUEwox6UqTgarqNFHzUcmy9RMxD2D0BZ_64Nrd2s" data-unique-identifier=""><br></span></i></p>
<p style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:black">Thomas Jefferson,
the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will
cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give
to those who would not."</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br><span></span><br><span>Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>Change listserver email address & settings:</span><br><span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:</span><br><span>https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</span><br><span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br><span>http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</span><br><span></span><br><span>Check out or update participant bios:</span><br><span>http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br><span></span><br><span>Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>Change listserver email address & settings:</span><br><span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:</span><br><span>https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</span><br><span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br><span>http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</span><br><span></span><br><span>Check out or update participant bios:</span><br><span>http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>