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<div dir="auto">It was explained to me, the compounds Amphenol used in this large batch of connector housings were bad/incorrect.</div>
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<div dir="auto">We started seeing failures on these modules as quickly as 6 months of being in service.</div>
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<div dir="auto">Bryan Norkunas</div>
<div dir="auto">PV-Cables </div>
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<div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="auto">Get <a href="https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg">
Outlook for Android</a></div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf of Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 10, 2023 7:39:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jay <jay.peltz@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?</font>
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<div dir="ltr">I’ve wondered what other variables are at work given that mostly these connectors work as they should. </div>
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<div dir="ltr">I’d like to see them come with plugs covering the openings. This would keep dirt, salt air, moisture, etc out until they are connected. </div>
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<div dir="ltr">As to if there were lots of failures with SW modules then I wonder if whoever built the whips had poor quality control. Might be they were not seated properly or dirty or the crimp they used wasn’t calibrated correctly or they were stored in
a salt environment creating corrosion or something like that. </div>
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<div dir="ltr">I looked up the specs last night on the mc4 and it’s like 30+ amps depending on the wire, pretty impressive </div>
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<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On Nov 10, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
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<div dir="auto">Mine was a roof mount. We had very few SolarWorld projects. In fact, this might be our only one.</div>
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<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 8:10 AM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I'd be curious to know of the connector failures y'all have experienced, were the majority of these roof mounts?
<div>Just wondering if with better air flow like that of a pole/ground mount, if that helped to minimize connector failure.</div>
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</div>
<div>Christopher</div>
</div>
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<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 1:21 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div>
<p>Ray,</p>
<p> Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground mount system, 3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler air, fully engaged MC4 factory connectors PV to PV connectors with SW285's, not passing current, melted. No attempt to contact
SW just made up new connectors. </p>
<p> My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made up by the bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs, pencils, chicken nuggets, etc) you're going to get some duds. In 20+ years of installing PVs with factory made-up connectors,
I've only seen this happen 2-3 times. Installing in the mountains we no doubt use ground mount much more often than most installs in urban areas which would make a hot, melted connector possibly more of an issue a couple inches above a comp or wood roof.
We've never seen any connectors fail beyond the melted/deformed but still "contained" stage .</p>
<p> Back when SW was first transitioning from one connector to another, I remember them saying they (I think it was UTX and MC or was it UTX and Amphenol?) were compatible. We NEVER mixed connectors despite their claim.<br>
</p>
<p>Bill<br>
</p>
<pre cols="72">Feather River Solar Electric
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up</pre>
<div>On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not the UTX.</p>
<p>Ray<br>
</p>
<div>On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds like about the right timeframe.
<div><br>
</div>
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<div style="display:block">
<div role="link" style="display:inline-block"><a rel="nofollow noreferrer" href="https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/" dir="ltr" role="button" width="300" target="_blank" style="border-radius:10px; display:block; width:300px; overflow:hidden; text-decoration:none">
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<a rel="nofollow noreferrer" href="https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/" target="_blank" style="text-decoration:none"><font color="#000000" style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls
PV modules with Amphenol connectors</font></a></div>
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<a rel="nofollow noreferrer" href="https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/" target="_blank" style="text-decoration:none"><font color="#A2A2A9" style="color:rgba(60,60,67,0.6)">pv-magazine-usa.com</font></a></div>
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<div dir="ltr">Brian</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> wrote:<br>
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</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p>12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might. I just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC connector (module to module). It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling the plastic on both sides of the
connection. It was still passing current; I didn't get a chance to measure the volt drop. It was completely plugged in, so not an installation issue. </p>
<p>This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules. That also means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type. </p>
<p>10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+ hotter than ambient temp, all are tough on connectors. I predict more connector failures as module current ratings increase.</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<div>On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught on fire because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility for it…<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get some on them…<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none; border-bottom:none; border-left:none; border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225); padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Miller via RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> William Miller <a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
<william@millersolar.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Verdana,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">George:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Verdana,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Verdana,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the same as the NEC requirements. As long as you are not modifying the manufactured assembly
you are not responsible for compliance of that appliance. By appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Verdana,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Verdana,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">William Miller</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Verdana,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Miller Solar</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">805-438-5600</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.millersolar.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">CA Lic. 773985</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Verdana,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none; border-bottom:none; border-left:none; border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223); padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>George McClellan via RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Cc:</b> George McClellan<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Team;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing the limits of 12 AWG wire. If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will exceed the 25A that a
12 AWG wire can carry. I understand that the homeruns will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module cables (from junction box to MC4) also need to be larger? Any guidance or reference material would be greatly appreciated.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Thx,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4pt">330 James Way Ste 150<span lang="UK"> |
</span>Pismo Beach, CA 93449<span lang="UK"> | </span>USA<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:navy"><a href="http://www.recgroup.com/" title="http://www.recgroup.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.recgroup.com</a>
</span><span style="color:black">| <a href="mailto:shannon.kent@recgroup.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
george.mcclellan@recgroup.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Chris Schaefer’s<br>
</font></span><img src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zwIEzRtOZdJBisBPW2ba9BZwLKpocRcDBtPtw_dLzSM8MNthtmnA5rIuBZ_I3mSXj7FKHtwYk" data-unique-identifier=""><br>
<i><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span style="font-size:9pt">Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 </span><span style="font-size:12px"><br>
</span></span></i><i style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:10pt"><font color="#1f497d"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424<br>
</font></font></span></i><i style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,"sans-serif"; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="color:blue">www.solarandwindfx.com</span></a>
~ E-mail: <span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></span></i></p>
<p style="text-align:center"><i><span style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,"sans-serif"; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><img src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4x-VMx3KNrBUjGRGaM4iKmHJ8KxC99V1SUtUEwox6UqTgarqNFHzUcmy9RMxD2D0BZ_64Nrd2s" data-unique-identifier=""><br>
</span></i></p>
<p style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,"sans-serif"; color:black">Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and
give to those who would not."</span><span style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,"sans-serif"; color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span></p>
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