<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The Feeder Tap is our preferred method when available. However, I think you will find engineers who disagree that the tap can occur anywhere along the feeder. In my experience, PEs want to see that tap done with the downstream OCPD close to the tap. We would normally tap immediately before the subpanel OCPD within the subpanel.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We use a "sum of breakers" and "120%" rule in combination for many situations with meter/main panels and downstream subpanels. I've heard this called the Hawaiian Mai-Tai and/or Mai-Tai with a twist depending on the scenario. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The only issue I see potentially with Dana's Hawaii Tie-In example is mixing feeder conductors and service conductors in the same raceway (230.7). It's not completely clear what the intention is. I have seen some inspectors take this to another level and try to apply 230.7 to enclosures, but usually you can talk them through that unless they dig their heels in and consider an enclosure or cabinet a raceway. You might also need to deal with limitations in 312.8 regarding your splices.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Regarding the utility asking how you can have a 225 amp panel behind a 100 amp breaker, what business is that of theirs, and why the heck not?! In Florida, once you leave the meter can, that's customer-owned equipment and outside the utility's domain. There are millions of 200A residential services with 225A load centers (bus rating). Maybe they are wondering how you can do it because it is MLO, but that does not matter because the bus is protected by the premises main OCPD.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">One other consideration is whether you can even do this. If the combined continuous inverter output current exceeds 80A, the conductors between the main disconnect and the subpanel would need to be larger than #3 because the subpanel is MLO and the backfed conductors need to be sized for 125% of the inverter output current (regardless of the 100A OCPD in the meter bank). And then the main disconnect itself would need to be greater than 100A, which would exceed the service rating. It's unclear what the actual inverter output ratings are in the example drawing. Around here, we are limited to 90% of the service rating by the utility, but that's a moot point because you can't exceed 80% of the service rating due to the main breaker needing to be 125% of the inverter output rating. I'm oversimplifying this because the utility's 90% rule is not directly related to the inverter output rating, but is 85% of the system DC rating (which is pretty dumb).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Fun, fun, fun... Fortunately, we don't run into too many 100A services around here.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><br>Jason Szumlanski<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><img width="0" height="0" class="mailtrack-img" alt="" style="display:flex" src="https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/4c05d74e7f843f6b4877c744baaf3473a283339e.png?u=1613865"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 3:04 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><font size="4"><font face="Century Gothic">Correct & The 225
amp bus bar gives us the busbar ampacity to accept the 120 amp
back feed (includes the 25% factor)</font></font></p>
<p><font size="4"><font face="Century Gothic">22800w /240v = 95 amp</font></font><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 8/8/2023 12:19 PM, Darryl Thayer via
RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I need clarification; however, here
is my interpretation for you. </div>
<div>The utility feeds the meter and then
the 100A breaker. <br>
</div>
<div>Then you want this 100A breaker to
feed the 220A bus panel. </div>
<div>This 220A panel then supplies through
a 100A breaker the house load.</div>
<div>The solar also feeds the 220A panel.
If the solar exceeds 100A, and the house load is small, the
meter breaker will disconnect, losing power to the solar and
the load. </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at
10:11 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<p>Oh Wise folks!</p>
<p>Attached is a wire schematic please review. & feel
free to possibly use for yourself in the future.<br>
</p>
<p>I am in a bind with an interconnection where I have an
apartment 6 pack meter box with all 120-240v/100 amp
breakers & assumed 100 amp busbars. The apts. were a
mid 1970's original build. There are 4 apartment with 1
circuit/meter each & 1 house circuit/ meter for owners
use.The breaker boxes are Sylvania (yuck). Originally I
assumed a larger busbar due to 6 - 100 amp breakers &
this was not the case. We all know about assuming...</p>
<p>I consulted with W-2 who had assisted my lead installer
in in the past from UT. He sent the following & though
it makes sense to me, the utility is asking how I can have
a 225 amp panel behind a 100 amp breaker. My response was
that all we are doing is achieving a properly sized bus
bar to accommodate the back feed.</p>
<p>My Utility Idaho Power requires interconnection with a
meter that has a load on it. Solar only meters are not
allowed. This is for the owners loads only & he has 1
meter per apt complex at 100amps each.<br>
</p>
<p>I am wondering if any of you have used this connection
adaption to achieve a larger array connection & how it
went?</p>
<div>-- <br>
Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 <a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a>
Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 "Responsible
Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
work, try the other:<br>
<a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
<a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div>-- <br>
Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003
<a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br>
<a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>