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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>We have used Dwyer Instrument coils in the past. They detect AC current flow and have contacts you can wire for operation of other circuitry. They have quite a range of devices and you may find one suitable for your needs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Good luck!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Glenn Burt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>glb, Consulting Company<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>1949 East Road<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Bennington, VT 05201<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'><a href="mailto:glenn.burt@glbcc.com">glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>(518) 681-2274<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional TM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>VT Special Electrician EL-06979<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Microsoft Certified Professional<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Member IEEE<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 30, 2023 12:37 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br><b>Cc:</b> drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter On/Off Switch use Outback FX<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Do you have a source for voltage sensing coils? I only know about using the Morningstar relay driver. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Thank you,</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Drake </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Drake Chamberlin</span></em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Athens Electric LLC</span></em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810</span></em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>CO Master Electrician’s License 4526</span></em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional</span></em><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=signature><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>---<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p id=reply-intro><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>On 2023-07-21 07:10, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 5.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'><div id=replybody1><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>To avoid power relay, how about adding a voltage sensing coil on the AC input and have an NC contactor that opens on voltage in series with the inverter shutdown circuit. This should interrupt the inverter shutdown any time the generator is on.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 6:00 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I've done the AC relay idea as well, on Schneider that didn't have the easy off switching like the Outbacks. The problems are:<br>1) Much bigger relay, much higher current on the control side as well. It required a relay for the relay.<br>2) If there's a malfunction, you are messing with the main feeders for the home. <br>3) The inverters are still on with their no load draw, a pair of VFX inverters, would be 45 to 50 watts, so you could still shut the batteries down. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I think in your case without AGS, the trick might be to add a bypass control switch parallel to the relay, so they can manually turn the inverters back on. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Ray<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>On 7/20/2023 5:15 PM, Jay wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 5.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Hi Ray<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>This house won't have an AGS, manual start only. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>And your comments exactly, having to wait until the next day when hopefully there is enough sun to charge the battery is iffy. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Or they could do the inverter bypass switch. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Again I'm back to why is it a worse idea to install a relay on the AC? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Thx<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Jay<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>As to the sol ark which I never thought about it being in a sense an AC coupled system. IE if the inverter is off it won't charge. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I guess you'll have to install an external battery charger?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 5.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>On Jul 20, 2023, at 5:08 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 5.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'><div><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>The aux off is only if the generator doesn't start. You need to set the gen start voltage higher. Aux off is last ditch shut down, set for 44v for lead acid, or 47 to 49v, depending on the battery and inverter. Hopefully DC coupled PV will raise the voltage enough to turn the inverters back on the next day. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>This is my concern on Solark installs, I just noticed that the inverter won't pass through PV, if it hits its LVD set point. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>On 7/20/2023 3:04 PM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 5.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>HI All, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I wanted to revisit this thread for one reason.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>If you turn off the inverter at the remote on/off with the AUX relay, then starting the generator won't have any impact as the inverter is off. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>So someone will have to go and reset the AUX relay.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Vs<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>If you do a relay on the AC output, when you start the generator, it will start charging, raising the battery volts, causing the AUX relay to close AC output relay and you'll have power in the house.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Am I missing something?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>jay<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Here is the last email I think:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><pre style='white-space:pre-wrap'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier'>Mac,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><p class=MsoNormal><tt><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier'>I think you've got an elegant solution to the problem. All you need is an inexpensive relay and to program the Aux output for loadshed. I </span></tt><tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>believe shutting down the inverter with the remote on/off contacts is </span></tt><tt><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier'>actually less stressful on the inverter than opening a relay or contactor on the load side.</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier'>Kent Osterberg<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier'>Blue Mountain Solar<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier'>On 7/11/2023 5:19 PM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #5555EE 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 10.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'><pre style='white-space:pre-wrap'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:#A01E1E'>Hello Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:#A01E1E'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><p class=MsoNormal><tt><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:#A01E1E'>I'm trying to solve an issue with an older Outback FX system. It's a quad stack of Outback 3648 FX inverters and he has a couple of Fortress eVault and an unreliable generator. The LBCO setting can't go high enough to cut out before the eVaults cut out so he occasionally will have to direct charge the eVault to get things running again.I'd like to use a 12V Aux relay logic to trip the primary inverter on/off contacts before we go into battery shutdown so the solar has a chance to recover the system. Pretty simple overall but I wanted to see if there are any known ill effects of doing this with substantial load on the system. Of course, I can use a power relay but this may be better.</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#A01E1E'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:#A01E1E'>Thanks for your input!<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:#A01E1E'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Courier;color:#A01E1E'>--<o:p></o:p></span></pre></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>There are two list archives for searching. 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