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<div dir="auto">See this image to see what we mean...<br>
<br>
<img style="max-width:100%;height:auto" src="cid:9F424B0C-5565-45EB-BEDA-BA2243CB24A9"><br>
I hope this makes sense.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Kienan<br></div>
</div>
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<div dir="auto"><strong style="color:inherit;background-color:white;font-family:Calibri;font-size: large">Green-Go Solar Wholesale Distribution LLC</strong><span style="font-size: large"><br></span><a style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size: large" href="https://maxfieldsolar@hotmail.com" target="_blank"><strong>maxfieldsolar@hotmail.com</strong></a><span style="font-size: large"><br></span><strong style="color:inherit;font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size: large">(801) 631-5584(Cell)</strong><span style="font-size: large"><br></span><a style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size: large" href="https://www.distribution.solar" target="_blank"><strong>www.distribution.solar</strong></a></div>
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<div name="messageReplySection">On Jul 21, 2023 at 4:07 PM -0600, Kienan Maxfield via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">I was just about to suggest the same thing Mac suggested. Any 120 V relay would work. Just wire it in parallel with the auxiliary relay that is shutting the inverter off. When the AC input is energized, the relay closes, and your inverter turns on. I like using a relay that has a base. I trust the Eaton ice cube ones, but they’re kind of expensive. Here’s a cheaper one…
<div><br></div>
<div><a href="https://www.platt.com/p/0648927/abb/general-purpose-relay-11-blade-3pdt-120v-ac/abb1svr405612r2000">https://www.platt.com/p/0648927/abb/general-purpose-relay-11-blade-3pdt-120v-ac/abb1svr405612r2000</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Base - <a href="https://www.platt.com/p/0736026/abb/socket-11-blade-cr-m/abb1svr405651r2000">https://www.platt.com/p/0736026/abb/socket-11-blade-cr-m/abb1svr405651r2000</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>These are the ones I stock on my work truck - <a href="https://www.platt.com/p/0147434/eaton/relay-120vac-coil-dpdt-10a-8-pin-plug-in-style/786685930169/cutd3rf2a">https://www.platt.com/p/0147434/eaton/relay-120vac-coil-dpdt-10a-8-pin-plug-in-style/786685930169/cutd3rf2a</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Base - <a href="https://www.platt.com/p/0384871/eaton/socket-octal-8-pin-screw-clamp-terminals/782114159767/cutd3pa2">https://www.platt.com/p/0384871/eaton/socket-octal-8-pin-screw-clamp-terminals/782114159767/cutd3pa2</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I like these ones for a few reasons. One, they seem to be quality. Two, you can get them in a wide variety of coil voltages, including DC voltages. Three, I like the little control tab where you can manually turn the relay on if you ever have a reason to do that.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Kienan<br>
<div><br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
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<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Jul 21, 2023, at 6:29 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:<br>
<br></blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"></div>
<div dir="ltr">I’ve never used one before. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">Can you recommend one?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Jul 21, 2023, at 5:12 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:<br>
<br></blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">To avoid power relay, how about adding a voltage sensing coil on the AC input and have an NC contactor that opens on voltage in series with the inverter shutdown circuit. This should interrupt the inverter shutdown any time the generator is on.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 6:00 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>I've done the AC relay idea as well, on Schneider that didn't have the easy off switching like the Outbacks. The problems are:<br>
1) Much bigger relay, much higher current on the control side as well. It required a relay for the relay.<br>
2) If there's a malfunction, you are messing with the main feeders for the home.<br>
3) The inverters are still on with their no load draw, a pair of VFX inverters, would be 45 to 50 watts, so you could still shut the batteries down.<br></p>
<p>I think in your case without AGS, the trick might be to add a bypass control switch parallel to the relay, so they can manually turn the inverters back on. <br></p>
<p>Ray<br></p>
<div>On 7/20/2023 5:15 PM, Jay wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Ray</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">This house won’t have an AGS, manual start only. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">And your comments exactly, having to wait until the next day when hopefully there is enough sun to charge the battery is iffy. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">Or they could do the inverter bypass switch. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">Again I’m back to why is it a worse idea to install a relay on the AC? </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">Thx</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">As to the sol ark which I never thought about it being in a sense an AC coupled system. IE if the inverter is off it won’t charge. </div>
<div dir="ltr">I guess you’ll have to install an external battery charger?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Jul 20, 2023, at 5:08 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> wrote:<br>
<br></blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p>The aux off is only if the generator doesn't start. You need to set the gen start voltage higher. Aux off is last ditch shut down, set for 44v for lead acid, or 47 to 49v, depending on the battery and inverter. Hopefully DC coupled PV will raise the voltage enough to turn the inverters back on the next day. <br></p>
<p>This is my concern on Solark installs, I just noticed that the inverter won't pass through PV, if it hits its LVD set point. <br></p>
<div>On 7/20/2023 3:04 PM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">HI All,
<div><br></div>
<div>I wanted to revisit this thread for one reason.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>If you turn off the inverter at the remote on/off with the AUX relay, then starting the generator won’t have any impact as the inverter is off. </div>
<div>So someone will have to go and reset the AUX relay.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Vs</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>If you do a relay on the AC output, when you start the generator, it will start charging, raising the battery volts, causing the AUX relay to close AC output relay and you’ll have power in the house.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Am I missing something?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>thanks</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>jay</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Here is the last email I think:</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<pre style="font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap;margin:0em">Mac,
</pre>
<tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:14px">I think you've got an elegant solution to the problem. All you need is </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:14px">an inexpensive relay and to program the Aux output for loadshed. I </tt><tt>believe shutting down the inverter with the remote on/off contacts is </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:14px">actually less stressful on the inverter than opening a relay or </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:14px">contactor on the load side.</tt>
<pre style="font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar
On 7/11/2023 5:19 PM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote style="margin:0em;padding:0px 0px 0px 0.85em;color:rgb(160,30,30);border-left:0.2em solid rgb(85,85,238);font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<pre style="font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em;white-space:pre-wrap;margin:0em">Hello Wrenches,
</pre>
<tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">I'm trying to solve an issue with an older Outback FX system. It's a </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">quad stack of Outback 3648 FX inverters and he has a couple of </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">Fortress eVault and an unreliable generator. The LBCO setting can't go </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">high enough to cut out before the eVaults cut out so he </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">occasionally will have to direct charge the eVault to get things </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">running again.</tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">I'd like to use a 12V Aux relay logic to trip the primary inverter </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">on/off contacts before we go into battery shutdown so the solar has a </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">chance to recover the system. Pretty simple overall but I wanted to </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">see if there are any known ill effects of doing this with substantial </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">load on the system. Of course, I can use a power relay but this may </tt><tt style="margin:0px;font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em">be better.</tt>
<pre style="font-family:courier,"courier new",monospace;font-size:1em;white-space:pre-wrap;margin:0em">Thanks for your input!
--</pre></blockquote>
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