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    <p>So the 24 batteries are actually 72 individual cells that are
      trying to charge equally, with essentially no BMS.  Its not just
      max strings, but max # of cells, and that's double my maximum.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>You mentioned they use it pretty hard, so that's the other big
      part of how long L16s will last.  If the customer is barely using
      the available capacity, I've seen batteries last closer to 10
      years, but in this case, I think the remaining cells are close to
      finished. I'm into using batteries for as long as possible as
      well, but customer and installer suffering come into play, as well
      as the fact they'll use much more water at the end of life, and
      cause a lot more corrosion damage.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Not to be a turd at the pool party, but its not reasonable to
      plan on another 2 years of service.  My guess is that you will
      probably have more cells fail by the time you return with the
      prorated warranty replacements.  Certainly rolling into the summer
      months, more cells are going to start failing like pop corn. (Pop,
      pop, pop)<br>
    </p>
    <p>Fortress is a good battery, but some of the programming,
      (especially LVD) can be tricky with older inverters.  I had to use
      the aux out on the CC to switch off the inverters.  IF the
      inverters are Outback, they have a remote switch, if its something
      else, you might have to actually switch off a relay on the AC
      output.</p>
    <p>Ray<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/4/2023 2:45 PM, Daniel Young via
      RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BL1PR12MB5921CDE5991F65FA842BC82CBB939@BL1PR12MB5921.namprd12.prod.outlook.com">
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        <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks all for the advice. I figured it was
          not worth trying on a different battery brand. I honestly
          needed to be able to tell them I researched it and asked my
          peers.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">The client really uses the 3 x strings they
          have and did not really want to go down to 3. They are
          currently choosing to get the two Rolls under the prorated
          warranty, and hopes to get another 2 useful years out of the
          bank before planning to replace.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Already prepared him on the cost of the
          equivalent Li+ at todays prices. So he knows roughly where he
          is heading.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Side note: I am in the camp of trying for 2
          x strings when possible (agree that 3 x strings is the
          absolute limit, and not the best option), simply because if a
          single cell goes bad, I don’t want a client with essentially
          nothing available until we can get a replacement and get on
          site. With 2 strings, they can make due at least. That’ll go
          out the window with Lithium though. Looking at Fortress Power
          for the next battery bank for this client. But we will see
          what changes in the market by the time it’s needed.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">With Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">Danny
              Young<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">NABCEP
              PV Installation Professional #031508-90<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">Engineering
              Team Lead<br>
              Solar Energy Solutions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Merriweather
              Regular",serif">Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington
              | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis</span><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">513-448-5176
              (mobile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">877-312-7456
              (Main Office)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather"><a
                href="mailto:danny@sesre.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">danny@sesre.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a>
              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
              RE-wrenches<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 3, 2023 4:34 PM<br>
              <b>To:</b> RE-wrenches
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
              <b>Cc:</b> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net"><offgridsolar@sti.net></a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] replace part of rolls
              battery bank<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div id="signature">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">5
              years old on 3 strings, it might not matter to mix, better
              get ready for a new bank.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
              have never used more than 1 string for my clients and get
              closer to 10 years life, so maybe there is better advice
              out there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Good
              Luck!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
          <pre><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">"we go where powerlines don't"<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
          <pre><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
          <pre><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">e-mail  <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
          <pre><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">text 209 813 0060</span></strong><o:p></o:p></pre>
        </div>
        <p><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p id="reply-intro"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">On
            2023-04-03 11:03 am, Daniel Young via RE-wrenches wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF
          1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
          5.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in">
          <div id="replybody1">
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Hello
                    Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Have
                    a client with 24 x Rolls S550’s. 2 of the batteries
                    have given up the ghost. Rolls will replace them
                    under the pro rated warranty.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The
                    issue us, the client is wanting to replace them with
                    non Rolls batteries to save $. They can get 400AH 6V
                    L-16 form factor FLA batteries from a local battery
                    house for the same price I am going to get the new
                    Rolls for. And that also means they don’t need to
                    pay for freight. The net result is that they could
                    save $4-500 by getting the batteries locally. No
                    freight, and no markup on the batteries we provide
                    (I can technically add the lost markup back in as
                    labor, we do need to make something off of the 3hr
                    one way drive to swap the batteries)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Question
                    is, has anyone got experience mixing battery brands
                    like this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">3
                    x strings of 8 c S550’s (L-16HC would be the
                    replacements) both dead batteries are on the same
                    string.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Whole
                    battery bank is near the 5yr old mark.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The
                    last rolls battery bank the client had lasted them
                    10 years. (they baby the battery bank to be sure,
                    and take maintenance seriously)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
                    understand where the client is coming from, but do
                    not want to let them shoot themselves in the foot,
                    and I simply do not know what the chances are of
                    swapping in batteries from a different brand. In my
                    head, I don’t see a big issue, even if they are sub
                    par, they will likely just get older faster, and
                    fail around the same time as the rest of the 4-5yr
                    old battery bank. But I’m unsure if there are any
                    more subtle issue that these other batteries would
                    cause.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Client
                    has been loyal for more than a decade, so I want to
                    give them a fair shake at saving some $ now, as they
                    plan to move to lithium when the whole battery bank
                    finally gives out.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">With
                    Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">--</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather"> </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">Danny
                    Young</span><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">NABCEP
                    PV Installation Professional #031508-90</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">Engineering
                    Team Lead<br>
                    Solar Energy Solutions</span><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Merriweather
                    Regular",serif">Lexington | Louisville |
                    Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">513-448-5176
                    (mobile)</span><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">877-312-7456
                    (Main Office)</span><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather"><a
                      href="mailto:danny@sesre.com"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">danny@sesre.com</a></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="v1msonormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier
                New"">_______________________________________________<br>
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