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<p>So the 24 batteries are actually 72 individual cells that are
trying to charge equally, with essentially no BMS. Its not just
max strings, but max # of cells, and that's double my maximum. <br>
</p>
<p>You mentioned they use it pretty hard, so that's the other big
part of how long L16s will last. If the customer is barely using
the available capacity, I've seen batteries last closer to 10
years, but in this case, I think the remaining cells are close to
finished. I'm into using batteries for as long as possible as
well, but customer and installer suffering come into play, as well
as the fact they'll use much more water at the end of life, and
cause a lot more corrosion damage.<br>
</p>
<p>Not to be a turd at the pool party, but its not reasonable to
plan on another 2 years of service. My guess is that you will
probably have more cells fail by the time you return with the
prorated warranty replacements. Certainly rolling into the summer
months, more cells are going to start failing like pop corn. (Pop,
pop, pop)<br>
</p>
<p>Fortress is a good battery, but some of the programming,
(especially LVD) can be tricky with older inverters. I had to use
the aux out on the CC to switch off the inverters. IF the
inverters are Outback, they have a remote switch, if its something
else, you might have to actually switch off a relay on the AC
output.</p>
<p>Ray<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/4/2023 2:45 PM, Daniel Young via
RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks all for the advice. I figured it was
not worth trying on a different battery brand. I honestly
needed to be able to tell them I researched it and asked my
peers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The client really uses the 3 x strings they
have and did not really want to go down to 3. They are
currently choosing to get the two Rolls under the prorated
warranty, and hopes to get another 2 useful years out of the
bank before planning to replace.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Already prepared him on the cost of the
equivalent Li+ at todays prices. So he knows roughly where he
is heading.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Side note: I am in the camp of trying for 2
x strings when possible (agree that 3 x strings is the
absolute limit, and not the best option), simply because if a
single cell goes bad, I don’t want a client with essentially
nothing available until we can get a replacement and get on
site. With 2 strings, they can make due at least. That’ll go
out the window with Lithium though. Looking at Fortress Power
for the next battery bank for this client. But we will see
what changes in the market by the time it’s needed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">With Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">Danny
Young<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">NABCEP
PV Installation Professional #031508-90<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">Engineering
Team Lead<br>
Solar Energy Solutions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Merriweather
Regular",serif">Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington
| Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">513-448-5176
(mobile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">877-312-7456
(Main Office)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather"><a
href="mailto:danny@sesre.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">danny@sesre.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 3, 2023 4:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net"><offgridsolar@sti.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] replace part of rolls
battery bank<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div id="signature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">5
years old on 3 strings, it might not matter to mix, better
get ready for a new bank.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
have never used more than 1 string for my clients and get
closer to 10 years life, so maybe there is better advice
out there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Good
Luck!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">"we go where powerlines don't"<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">text 209 813 0060</span></strong><o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<p><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p id="reply-intro"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">On
2023-04-03 11:03 am, Daniel Young via RE-wrenches wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
5.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in">
<div id="replybody1">
<div>
<div>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Hello
Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Have
a client with 24 x Rolls S550’s. 2 of the batteries
have given up the ghost. Rolls will replace them
under the pro rated warranty.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The
issue us, the client is wanting to replace them with
non Rolls batteries to save $. They can get 400AH 6V
L-16 form factor FLA batteries from a local battery
house for the same price I am going to get the new
Rolls for. And that also means they don’t need to
pay for freight. The net result is that they could
save $4-500 by getting the batteries locally. No
freight, and no markup on the batteries we provide
(I can technically add the lost markup back in as
labor, we do need to make something off of the 3hr
one way drive to swap the batteries)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Question
is, has anyone got experience mixing battery brands
like this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">3
x strings of 8 c S550’s (L-16HC would be the
replacements) both dead batteries are on the same
string.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Whole
battery bank is near the 5yr old mark.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The
last rolls battery bank the client had lasted them
10 years. (they baby the battery bank to be sure,
and take maintenance seriously)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
understand where the client is coming from, but do
not want to let them shoot themselves in the foot,
and I simply do not know what the chances are of
swapping in batteries from a different brand. In my
head, I don’t see a big issue, even if they are sub
par, they will likely just get older faster, and
fail around the same time as the rest of the 4-5yr
old battery bank. But I’m unsure if there are any
more subtle issue that these other batteries would
cause.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Client
has been loyal for more than a decade, so I want to
give them a fair shake at saving some $ now, as they
plan to move to lithium when the whole battery bank
finally gives out.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">With
Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">--</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather"> </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">Danny
Young</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">NABCEP
PV Installation Professional #031508-90</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">Engineering
Team Lead<br>
Solar Energy Solutions</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Merriweather
Regular",serif">Lexington | Louisville |
Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">513-448-5176
(mobile)</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">877-312-7456
(Main Office)</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather"><a
href="mailto:danny@sesre.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">danny@sesre.com</a></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="v1msonormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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