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<p>My 2 cents: L16s are not a good choice in the first place.
Compare the cycle life vs cost. <br>
2nd that sounds like way too many batteries/ strings and
definitely a candidate for larger format 2 v cells or Li+. <br>
</p>
<p>I second William's idea of creating 2 strings of the best cells,
and start shopping for a better solution. You're going to start
playing wack a mole, replace a couple of batteries now, a couple
more in 2 months, and so on, until both you and the client are in
tears. Put all that money and effort towards a new battery. <br>
</p>
<p>If they want sealed, Li+ is really the only decent choice, I've
seen less than 5 years from sealed L16s like Trojan. Full River
is about the best in that field, and still only going to see 7 to
8 years. It just doesn't pencil out compared to HUPs or Li+.</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/3/2023 12:39 PM, William Miller
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ff94ec9aea1da0703c767ee3f723d66a@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Daniel:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
feel your pain: In October of 2021 one of our off-grid
clients had failed flooded L-16 batteries. We needed 16
replacement batteries and chose Rolls VRLA batteries. We
could not get 16 due to supply chain constraints so we went
for 8 with a back order for another 8. It took until May of
2022 before we could get 8 more. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
Rolls batteries subsequently failed. We were denied
warranty relief in part because we mixed the exact same
batteries but delivered 7 months apart. The cost of
resolution came out of my pocket.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If
you can’t mix the same batteries of slightly different age,
I would extrapolate that you can’t mix batteries of
different manufacturer. My guess is if you mix batteries
the entire array would experience a hastened decline. This
conclusion is consistent with research done over many years.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
looked up the S550 batteries and learned they are 6 volts
units. Assuming the system is 48 volt nominal this would be
3 strings of 8. Three strings is pushing the envelope of
acceptable design. Multiple parallel strings encourage
circulating currents resulting in a process I call “battery
cannibalism”: Lower voltage batteries discharge the higher
voltage batteries over time.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If
it were me I would rearrange the batteries into two strings
of the best batteries and wait for the rest of them to
fail. I would then redesign the system for one string with
an appropriate AH rating. Two volt cells are a practical
way to achieve this.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Also
look carefully at your thermal compliance. Make sure you
are using the proper temperature compensation value applied
to all charging sources. Avoid re-radiated heat from sunlit
surfaces and proved good ventilation. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
hope this helps.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William
Miller</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller
Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA
Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Daniel Young via RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 3, 2023 11:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Daniel Young<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] replace part of rolls
battery bank</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Wrenches,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Have a client with 24 x Rolls S550’s. 2 of
the batteries have given up the ghost. Rolls will replace them
under the pro rated warranty.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The issue us, the client is wanting to
replace them with non Rolls batteries to save $. They can get
400AH 6V L-16 form factor FLA batteries from a local battery
house for the same price I am going to get the new Rolls for.
And that also means they don’t need to pay for freight. The
net result is that they could save $4-500 by getting the
batteries locally. No freight, and no markup on the batteries
we provide (I can technically add the lost markup back in as
labor, we do need to make something off of the 3hr one way
drive to swap the batteries)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Question is, has anyone got experience
mixing battery brands like this?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">3 x strings of 8 c S550’s (L-16HC would be
the replacements) both dead batteries are on the same string.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Whole battery bank is near the 5yr old
mark.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The last rolls battery bank the client had
lasted them 10 years. (they baby the battery bank to be sure,
and take maintenance seriously)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I understand where the client is coming
from, but do not want to let them shoot themselves in the
foot, and I simply do not know what the chances are of
swapping in batteries from a different brand. In my head, I
don’t see a big issue, even if they are sub par, they will
likely just get older faster, and fail around the same time as
the rest of the 4-5yr old battery bank. But I’m unsure if
there are any more subtle issue that these other batteries
would cause.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Client has been loyal for more than a
decade, so I want to give them a fair shake at saving some $
now, as they plan to move to lithium when the whole battery
bank finally gives out.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">With Regards,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">--</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">Danny
Young</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">NABCEP PV
Installation Professional #031508-90</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">Engineering
Team Lead<br>
Solar Energy Solutions</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Merriweather
Regular"">Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington |
Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">513-448-5176
(mobile)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather">877-312-7456
(Main Office)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Merriweather"><a
href="mailto:danny@sesre.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:blue">danny@sesre.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<br>
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