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<p>Chris, Jason, all;</p>
<p>I really like the idea of double clamping in serious situations.
I wish we had had this conversation about 2 months ago, before we
installed 2 more systems in Puerto Rico. I definitely would have
suggested the team try that. Save it for next time, and hopefully
we get a bit better with new found idea on each install.</p>
<p>Thanks again for great ideas Wrenches,</p>
<p>Ray<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/31/2023 2:15 PM, Jason Szumlanski
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE438R_C5Q=MUsnade6-S0w-zT4iaT2nFHz7mjNeqZjA4WxS-g@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Hi Ray,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'm happy to
have some confirmation from another major storm's impact. My
father has a home in Dominica, which was hit by Maria with
165 mph winds before it moved on to PR. He had a mixed bag
of results with solar panels (forget about the pole mounts I
installed there over 20 years ago!)</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I was just
reminded by your email about something I plan to try. For
panels that are pitched on flat roofs, I am going to double
up and install BOTH IronRidge CAMO and UFOs. With proper
planning, it would be pretty easy to install with UFOs first
and then go back and snap in all of the CAMOs without much
labor cost and an acceptable material cost for the added
peace of mind.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Jason Szumlanski
<div><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP
Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida
State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at
9:45 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi Jason;</p>
<p>I was like you: thinking good ol' bottom mounting with
SS hardware was the best. All of us old wrenches were
wrong.<br>
</p>
<p>The top down mounting system is much stronger. I've
only had a handful of failures over 25 years, and all
were bottom mounted. The module completely ripped off
the rack, leaving the stainless hardware, washers, etc
with a thin sliver of module frame between. For
repairs, I come back and install 1/2" SS angle on the
inside of the module frame to spread the load more.
AND....on new installs, no more bottom mounting. If you
compare today's modules with old 12v models from 20
years ago, you'll see: much thinner metal on the bottom
frames now. <br>
</p>
<p>Meanwhile I saw several systems survive Hurricane Maria
in Puerto Rico: all top down mounting. You are correct
that the failures come from the modules themselves
letting go, not the racking. Either the wind itself is
so strong as to blow the glass, then the frame looses
its structure, or flying debris breaks the glass. There
were some MW PV fields that got tore up pretty bad. So
no, ground mounts definitely can be destroyed. They had
tornadoes moving inside of the hurricane, and you could
see it in the damage, 50' wide strips of total carnage
with undamaged modules a few feet away. Like you said,
The storm has a mind of its own.<br>
</p>
<p>As far as mid clamp T bolt failures, I can confirm that
probably a majority are not installed correctly,
especially Unirac, which are terrible to get the T lined
up right. I've done numerous inspections world wide,
and a signifcant % of racking I looked at was NOT
installed correctly. <br>
1) The Ts not squarely lined up with the rail, <br>
2) massive over torqueing, to the point the bolt can't
be reversed <br>
3) under torqueing, to the point the modules had
slipped down a little.</p>
<p>Most of these problems come from installing with an
impact driver. Impact drivers are a great tool (so is a
hammer), but you got to know when and where to Not use
them, too. They're great for installing the lags and L
feet, but then get that tool off the roof.</p>
<p>Use an electric screw driver, socket wrench, or <b>drill
with a clutch</b> set low to snug up the clamps, and
then final torque with a torque wrench. Period. <br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
Former NABCEP 2004-2016<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 3/30/2023 4:34 PM, Jason Szumlanski via
RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">That
would be great if it were possible! I'm not sure
how you bottom mount a flush mount array. For a
brief period many years ago, I was building solar
trailers. I would bottom mount 4-6 panel arrays on
rails in my warehouse and then hoist them up and
through-bolt the whole array on the top of a
trailer. I wasn't about to allow a trailer going
80 mph on the interstate to have panels mounted on
the roof with mid-clamps! I had no idea what I was
doing, but I had enough sense to know that would
have been a bad idea!</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I
did provide feedback to IronRidge regarding a
handful of failures from Hurricane Ian, but most
of the issues we saw were most likely related to
catastrophic module failure. After all, they are
only tested to 5600 Pa uplift for even the best
options we have on the market and 2400 Pa for some
(which I refuse to use). The mid-clamp T-bolts
tearing out of the rail are slightly concerning,
but this was pretty rare, and honestly it could be
related to installation torque issues,
misalignment, or coupled with module failure.
There was no widespread or definitive reason for
rail failures at the clamp locations.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I
would suggest that FEMA's recommendation is
overkill and not based on much science, but
conclusions based on anecdotal information without
statistical data. It should be scrutinized. I
think it would be a good idea to consider bottom
mount for ground racks and tilt mounts that allow
it, but it's just not practical or possible in the
vast majority of residential installation cases.
On that note, I am not aware of any ground mount
failures around here from Hurricane Ian except for
submerged arrays that were washed away from storm
surge (Yikes!). And the handful of failures that
we observed were a drop in the bucket relative to
the installed numbers here.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">One
other thing. Wind direction, upwind
obstructions/windbreaks, and luck have a huge
amount to do with failures (of both PV and roofs
themselves). These storms pick winners and losers.
You will have ten houses in a row with pool
enclosures mangled, and one in the middle that is
unscathed. It's crazy to see. We have lots of
gated communities with houses close together. When
wind accelerates between houses, it can topple air
conditioning units and pool equipment. If you look
hard enough at where the wind was coming from and
the surrounding area, you can really see how there
are so many factors that come into play.</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Jason Szumlanski
<div><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design
Group</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP
Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida
State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 30,
2023 at 7:35 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches
<<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font size="4">If you look at FEMA's design
guide for solar installations in FL and the
Caribbean, the recommended module to rail
attachment method is back to using the
attachment holes in the solar module. Chris</font><br>
</p>
<div>On 3/30/2023 5:56 AM, Jason Szumlanski via
RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This
thread has morphed into more than it
started as, and for good reason. I want
to provide some practical/anecdotal
information, having just gone through
arguably the most catastrophic wind
event in Florida's history (Ian) since
the boom in solar energy started, and
another major wind event (Irrma) just 5
years ago.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">First,
Aside from the Sunmodo and Quickbolt
decking-only products, I would check out
IronRidge's new entrant into the market,
the IronRidge HUG. If you can't find
info on it, ask your distributor or
IronRidge sales rep. They have data on
truss attachments and also missed truss
installation procedures. It's a unique
approach to a dual-purpose product, and
they did a stellar job on the
engineering documentation in my opinion.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Ok,
now let's get to my most important
point. Due to Hurricane Ian, the number
of roofing PV attachments that I have
witnessed that failed due to fastener
pull-out (mine or competitors):</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">ZERO</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The
only building where we had any mounts
fail was on a flat roof with pitched
panels and Anchor Products mounts on TPO
membrane, but the mounts themselves did
not cause the failure. The roofing
system itself failed, causing a small
section of the PV system to fail. But
even in that case, the following
applies...</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The
weak point in a well-designed and
installed system is not the fastener or
flashing system. The module to rail
connection is where we saw failures.
These failures fell into a few
categories:</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<ul>
<li>Windborne debris struck panel,
panel frame failed, panel popped out
of mid-clamps.</li>
<li>Catastrophic wind forces popped
panels out of mid-clamps (a good
percentage of panels found INTACT
and still functional on the ground!)
I suspect the panels became covex in
the wind, bending frames inward.</li>
<li>Windborne debris struck mounting
system components, panel dislodged,
often still on the roof suspended by
DC leads.</li>
<li>Mid-clamp t-bolt tore out of
aluminum rail channel (IronRidge
UFO, Unirac SM).</li>
<li>Mid-clamp sheared off (Quick Mount
QRail).</li>
<li>Unexplained module detachment
failures.</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">On
9/28/22, while I stayed up all night
bracing myself against my front door
that I thought was about to fail, I was
imagining how many roof leaks my clients
were about to endure, and wondered about
the efficacy of my business going
forward. Those fears never materialized.
Aside from a handful of minor panel
dislodgements, there was no panic
following the storm (with respect to
solar panels). The bigger problem became
all of the people needing to remove
panels for roof replacements, but PV
panels largely protected roofs in the
areas where they were installed. Sadly,
the rest of the roof often did not fare
as well.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Anyway,
back to the decking attachments. I have
been skeptical of non-flashed products
for comp shingle roofs for a long time.
My thinking is coming around,
particularly with the HUG (I trust
IronRidge's testing regime). And
sealants have come so far. This method
will remain up for debate probably for a
long time. Around here, I am pretty
certain these products will outlast the
shingles they are placed upon. We only
get 15 years out of most shingle roofs
around here.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">About
the pull-out fears... Mine are gone. We
have done many flat roofs with long
fasteners through steel decking or wood
decking. These screws are usually
something like #15 XHD screws in lengths
from 5 - 12". Not a single failure. We
have also used Quick Mount QBase
Low-Slope bases on pitched tile roofs
that were only screwed into decking with
4 fasteners each (due to horizontal
truss transitions) in some cases. Zero
failures. But the most relevant
attachments I can think of that are
germane to this discussion are the many
thousands of S-5 SolarFoot that we have
screwed into decking on 5V metal roofs
around here. These have four screws per
attachment, and S-5 load tests show
something like 240 lbs of pull-out
strength in OSB (adjusted for safety
factor). When engineered for our wind
loads, we usually get anywhere from
36-48 inch attachment spacing, sometimes
24 inches in certain roof zones. Again,
not a single failure.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I
have more solar installations on Sanibel
Island and Fort Myers Beach (Hurricane
Ian Ground zero) than anyone. Many of
those have decking-only attachments, S-5
clamps, flat roofs, or other attachments
other than trusses. I can tell you
unequivocally that I trust decking-only
attachments from a pull-out strength
standpoint. When properly engineered,
with cautious attachment spacing, these
mounts work in both OSB and plywood.
Because of the inconsistencies in OSB,
we always err on the side of caution, if
not in the engineering, then in the
installation, by installing more
attachments than prescribed. But the
evidence is clear. It works.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Caveat
to the above: I have zero experience
with snow or seismic, and no experience
on roofs exceeding 8:12 pitch, and few
above 6:12. </div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">And
one more shout-out to S-5 clamps on
standing seam roofs. Aside from one
minor failure of the roof metal itself,
not an S-5 failure, we had zero failures
of S-5 clamps attachments to report.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I
hope this anecdotal information
helps and sets some fears aside.
Please reach out to me off-list if
you want any specifics or details
about our experience with
catastrophic wind events.</div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Sincerely,</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Jason Szumlanski
<div><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar
Design Group</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP
Certified Solar Professional
(PVIP)</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida
State Certified Solar Contractor
CVC56956</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<img alt="" style="display:flex"
src="https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/3fe2b3d4fd55f6aa5564b2f98c8384dac44a3b1e.png?u=1613865"
moz-do-not-send="true" width="0"
height="0">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu,
Mar 30, 2023 at 2:47 AM William Miller
via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Friends:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks
for bringing up this
scenario. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
have two problems with using a
product such as the easy-feet
or other deck-fastened
brackets, particularly on a
rigid foam-above-sheeting
roof:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>1.<span>
</span></span></span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
worry about compression of the
foam material over time. This
could leave a void under the
bracket which could lead to
leaks or wobbly brackets.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>2.<span>
</span></span></span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
don’t believe in chemical
solutions for sloped-roof
rain-proofing. By that I mean
the use of caulks, gaskets,
etc. Since roofs were first
thatched, the overriding
wisdom is that gravity is the
only way to reliably shed
water. Overlapping, seamless
material is the only method to
use. Caulks degrade, roof
surfaces become powdery, and
the rafter is often under an
architectural feature or seam
in the shingles.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
researched the PLP EZ foot
back when the company was
DPW. The fasteners provided
were not rated for the
application, according to the
fastener manufacturer. If you
can match the fasteners to the
decking and the forces, then
maybe you have a start to a
mounting solution.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Whatever
product you use, I would
install it on a section of
flashing metal, lapped under
the next course up. The
flashing gives a flat,
seamless surface to caulk or
gasket to. The thicker and
wider the flashing, the more
you distribute the downward
force </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">applied
to the bracket by weight and
fasteners. Any voids under
the bracket will have an
overlapped flashing above it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
hope these musings help you
find a solution.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">William
Miller</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">PS:
I have encountered this roof
configuration a few times on
flat, <a
href="https://homeinspectioninsider.com/built-up-roofing/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">built-up
roofing (BUR</a>). We have
dealt with it by cutting
through the foam, installing
blocking on top of the
sheeting and having a roofer
feather the blocks into the
roofing with <a
href="https://www.blueridgefiberboard.com/cant-strip-tapered-edge-smoothes-roof-drainage-slope/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">cant
strips</a>. A pitched roof
is a different situation,
however.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Wm</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Miller
Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">CA
Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,"sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,"sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>August
Goers via RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March
29, 2023 11:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Cc:</b> August Goers<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[RE-wrenches] Attaching Array
To or Through Ply</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We've found
that in the Bay Area that
deck-mount solutions typically
pencil out structurally (via a
structural professional
engineer) as long as the deck
is 1/2" plywood or thicker,
assuming we have all the info
on how the roof is
constructed. The big
assumption is that we can get
all that roof construction
info, which can be difficult
for existing structures.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We
haven't taken the plunge yet
on the flahingless deck
mount products like the
Sunmodo Nanomount or Unirac
Flashloc Duo. I do think
that they offer several
significant advantages
including not needing to
find rafters, thus virtually
eliminating missed pilot
holes, and not disturbing
the comp shingle by
eliminating prying up the
courses to insert the
flashing. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">August</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Luminalt</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed,
Mar 29, 2023 at 11:34 AM
Solar Energy Solutions via
RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in
0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We like
Spider Rax… with the
flashing!</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<table
style="width:225pt;background:rgb(233,233,235);border-collapse:collapse"
width="525"
cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="padding:0in">
<table
style="width:128.55pt;background:rgb(233,233,235)"
width="300"
cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="padding:6pt
0in">
<div
style="margin-left:12pt;margin-right:12pt;max-width:100%;overflow:hidden">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,"sans-serif""><a
href="https://spiderrax.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:black;text-decoration:none">Spider-Rax
PV Solar
Mounting</span></a></span></b></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,"sans-serif""><a
href="https://spiderrax.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(162,162,169);text-decoration:none">spiderrax.com</span></a></span></b></p>
</div>
</td>
<td
style="width:15.45pt;padding:0in
9pt 0in 0in"
width="36">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica,"sans-serif""><a
href="https://spiderrax.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="text-decoration:none"><b>Error!
Filename not
specified.</b></span></a></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div
id="m_-7918957773201700933m_3652185581101052749m_-7827179430652818356m_6716844740238566097m_3963197914649838960yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23166">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>Andrew
Koyaanisqatsi</b></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-7918957773201700933m_3652185581101052749m_-7827179430652818356m_6716844740238566097m_3963197914649838960yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23122">
<p
class="MsoNormal">President</p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-7918957773201700933m_3652185581101052749m_-7827179430652818356m_6716844740238566097m_3963197914649838960yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23169">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>Solar
Energy
Solutions,
Inc.<br>
<i
id="m_-7918957773201700933m_3652185581101052749m_-7827179430652818356m_6716844740238566097m_3963197914649838960yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471541494300_7793">The
BRIGHT CHOICE</i></b></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-7918957773201700933m_3652185581101052749m_-7827179430652818356m_6716844740238566097m_3963197914649838960yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23169">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-7918957773201700933m_3652185581101052749m_-7827179430652818356m_6716844740238566097m_3963197914649838960yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23174">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>Since
1987, helping
you and your </b></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-7918957773201700933m_3652185581101052749m_-7827179430652818356m_6716844740238566097m_3963197914649838960yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23174">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b>Portland
neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future.</b></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-7918957773201700933m_3652185581101052749m_-7827179430652818356m_6716844740238566097m_3963197914649838960yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23174">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div
id="m_-7918957773201700933m_3652185581101052749m_-7827179430652818356m_6716844740238566097m_3963197914649838960yiv6213109167yui_3_13_0_rc_1_1_1382394418853_23177">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><a
href="tel:503-238-4502" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">503-238-4502</a><br>
<a
href="http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/"
id="m_-7918957773201700933m_3652185581101052749m_-7827179430652818356m_6716844740238566097m_3963197914649838960yiv6213109167yui_3_16_0_1_1418769668206_5441"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.SolarEnergyOregon.com</a></b></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">On
Mar 29, 2023, at 11:04
AM, Jerry Shafer via
RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Tahoma,"sans-serif""></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Wrenches</p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Sounds
like a SIP's
type product,
there are quite
a few multi hole
attachment bases
that are
designed for
SIP's. Most will
have a larger
base, lots of
holes for screws
to attach that
do not require
rafters
underneath to
attach.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Fun
times</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Wed, Mar 29,
2023, 8:30 AM
frenergy via
RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in
0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>Matt,</p>
<p> I
guess my
questions are
1/2" plywood
or 5/8" and
how thick is
the foam? Oh
and I assume
its nominal
2X6 T&G?
Do you know
how the
plywood is
attached?.....through
the foam into
the
T&G?... to
stringers,
nailers or
whatever
they're
called?</p>
<p>Bill</p>
<pre>Feather River Solar Electric </pre>
<pre>Bill Battagin, Owner</pre>
<pre>4291 Nelson St.(shipping) </pre>
<pre>5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)</pre>
<pre>Taylorsville, CA 95983</pre>
<pre>530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell</pre>
<pre>CA Lic 874049</pre>
<pre>Solar powered since 1982</pre>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
3/29/2023 7:53
AM, Dave
Tedeyan via
RE-wrenches
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Hi
Matt, </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">I've
used these in
the past when
on a comp roof
and there was
no good way to
get into the
rafters (or
TJI's in this
case)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://sunmodo.com/nanomount/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://sunmodo.com/nanomount/</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">You
might want to
replace the
screws with
something
shorter and
beefier though
to get more
grip if you
are only going
into 1/2"
plywood.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Cheers,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Dave</p>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Wed, Mar 29,
2023 at
10:38 AM Matt
Sherald via
RE-wrenches
<<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in
0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Hi
All,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">I've
run into a
roof-mounted
job where the
roof is
built-up with
the following:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Comp
shingle</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Plywood</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Foam
board</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">T&G
(roof deck,
but also
interior
ceiling)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">The
beams that
hold the
t&g up are
wide-spaced
and not
convenient for
fastening the
full extent of
the array. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">This
being the
case, I was
considering
other
fastening
options and am
writing to
pick the
collective
brain of the
Wrenches to
see how others
have addressed
similar
situations.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">One
thought I had
was to use the
PLP Easy
Mounting Foot
and I'd be
glad for any
opinions on
that or
another
solution. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">-Matt</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
-- </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Matt
Sherald</p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">PIMBY
Energy, LLC</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">304-704-5943</p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><br>
</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood
Alliance<br>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div>-- <br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div> <font face="PMingLiU-ExtB">
Christopher Warfel</font><br>
<font face="PMingLiU-ExtB">
ENTECH Engineering,
Inc.</font><br>
<font face="PMingLiU-ExtB">PO Box
871, Block Island, RI 02807</font><br>
<font face="PMingLiU-ExtB">
401-466-8978</font><br>
<font face="PMingLiU-ExtB"><a
href="http://entech-engineering.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><img
src="cid:part1.s2GZUZnv.d6RdaPM0@solarray.com"
alt="" class="" width="274"
height="121" border="0"></a><br>
</font><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
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