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<p>I think California is the first place that I realized external
MSP and breakers are common. Not so in the northeast and many
other parts of the country. It doesn't matter with respect to
battery systems in any case.<br>
</p>
<p>As for getting involved in writing the Code, that is a pretty
rotten things to say. Brian, why don't you post the schedule for
the next two Code cycles as best you can that says when: 1) Open
for receiving recommendations for revised language, 2) How to
submit, and 3) reference to the process for how this works? <br>
</p>
<p>I, and many other people I know, have submitted language for
consideration. Not one suggestion for twenty years has made it.
And it's not as though they were bad ideas. I stopped once I saw
how it didn't work. The CMP have made solar increasingly more
convoluted and less safe instead of the other direction. I've had
it with cloistered processes infiltrated by special interests.
It's like lobbyists writing bills. <br>
</p>
<p>This discussion is an example. I am familiar with 480.7. It is
an example of Not seeing the trees for the forest. It is using a
sledge hammer with a bad handle to address an issue that a tack
hammer could solve. <br>
</p>
<p>Not too long ago I was part of a team that trained about 10,000
fire fighters/first responders in solar systems. To not second
guess them would be wrong. Many had a very bad understanding of
pv (thanks again to those great ex fire fighters turned solar
experts making lots of money providing incomplete information on
this technology). Fire fighters need better education. This
battery disconnect requirement to control 10 feet of conductors is
nonsensical and counterproductive and should not be enforced. NEC
should issue a memo stating that it is a mistake and serves no
material purpose immediately. Would someone please explain
stepwise how this requirement is better protection than an ac
conductor disconnect on the battery supplied panel. Step wise,
cost wise, performance wise???<br>
</p>
<p>At a time when we are engaged in an international struggle where
energy is being used as a weapon against those who stand for
representative governments, freedom of speech, etc. to have
language such as this has always been suspect, but now shows up as
really glaringly wrong. We need distributed energy storage
systems. We need greater use of our renewable energy resources to
reduce ours, and our allies dependence upon energy sources from
countries who are hostile to our way of life and freedom. This
NEC language just plays into the hands of those that would like to
harm the free world. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Chris<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/28/2023 10:08 PM, Brian Mehalic
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:A8113E4D-CC43-4534-A650-4EE53E4F8DBF@solarenergy.org">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Easy buddy. First off you are wrong about where I live. And
secondly your whining about being cold will win you no sympathy;
old folks die in heat waves when the air conditioning fails!
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And if it such a big deal to you then don’t just complain -
get involved in the process, since I’m sure your ideas are the
absolute best and we’d all be better off if you wrote the Code. <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Brian</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Jan 28, 2023, at 8:02 PM, James
Jarvis <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jj@aprsworld.com"><jj@aprsworld.com></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Brian and William,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With all due respect, I think your geographical
location of California may be limiting in your
understanding of the implications of local power
security. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Where I am in Minnesota and where I work in Alaska,
loss of power and backup power can have very expensive
consequences. When it is -30F outside and howling wind,
buildings only have a matter of hours before their
interiors will drop below freezing. A few hours after
that pipes start to freeze and break. Pressurized water
then starts to spray everywhere and then things can very
quickly run into six-figure dollars amounts of damage.
So one way of reducing this risk is by installing an
ESS.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Around here, prior to the latest NEC, we didn't have
exterior disconnects available for anyone to shut off
power. We still don't for businesses. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My point is that NEC is mandating that there be zero
security of a buildings electrical systems by requiring
publicly accessible disconnects on backup systems. And
if NEC wasn't so prescriptive, there could be slightly
more secure alternatives such as a KNOXBOX or access
controlled disconnects. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>William: I also disagree with your premise that
you'll test the battery disconnect system after dark.
That's not a test; that's just cheating. You had a
knowledge person tell you that the MPPT controllers can
and do blow up when they lose their voltage reference
(battery) under load. And removing the battery from the
circuit does allow the charge controllers to island with
the inverter and DC loads and do other damage. I know of
a telecom customer that had hundreds of thousands of
dollars of damage when their battery became
disconnected. If you are unwilling to test it at full
load, I'd guess you know that the whole concept is a
dumb idea.</div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>-James Jefferson Jarvis<br>
APRS World, LLC<br>
+1-507-454-2727<br>
</div>
<a href="http://www.aprsworld.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.aprsworld.com/</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at
7:35 PM Brian Mehalic <<a
href="mailto:brian@solarenergy.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">brian@solarenergy.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Every single house I’ve looked at in my
town has a breaker panel with a main service
disconnect on the outside of the house already. So in
many cases we are well beyond worrying about someone
“flicking your switch!”
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In fact, in addition to the emergency disconnect
requirement for stationary standby batteries
[480.7(B)] and ESS [706.15(B)] in one- and
two-family dwellings, also added in 2020 was the
requirement for an emergency disconnect for services
on those same one- and two-family dwellings
[230.85]. <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Brian Mehalic</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Jan 28, 2023, at 5:58
PM, James Jarvis via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">It would be nice if the decision
was up to the owner / occupant of the
property. I, for one, do not want any random
person to be able to turn off my house or
business with the flick of a switch. I feel
strongly that there is far too much fear
mongering in NEC with relation to renewable
energy.
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>-James Jefferson Jarvis<br>
APRS World, LLC<br>
+1-507-454-2727<br>
</div>
<a href="http://www.aprsworld.com/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.aprsworld.com/</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan
28, 2023 at 6:22 PM William Miller via
RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Esteemed wrenches:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Well if my house is on fire
and the entry of fire responders is
delayed for lack of a disconnect, I choose
having the disconnect. I can worry about
the charge controllers later. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Others may prioritize their
charge controller over their homes…</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Put a cable-tie lock in the
closed position to discourage kids from
messing with it. Test it only after dark. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">William</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 2:32 PM William
Bryce <<a
href="mailto:wlbryce@pineridgeproducts.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">wlbryce@pineridgeproducts.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">All
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One thing that no one is
talking about is what happens to
the MPPT charge controllers when
the Battery Disconnect trips when
the charge controllers are under
full load. </div>
<div>Many will blow up. Try turning
off the battery breaker on a
SolaArk when the charge
controllers are maxed, and see if
you get lucky.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 3:27 PM
William Miller via RE-wrenches
<<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jeremy:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks
for posting the code
references for those
that had never looked
them up.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Chris:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">What
do you mean by “</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">a
disconnect for AC
wiring, not specific to
which or both panel
types”</span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">All:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Code
references are handy
when receiving edicts
from building officials,
but not required, IMHO,
for two reasons: The
contractor should
already be versed in the
codes and, building
departments can mandate
their own requirements
above and beyond the
code.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">It
may seem redundant to
require an AC disconnect
for premise wiring as
well as a DC battery
disconnect. In most
cases if you disconnect
the inverter from the
batteries the AC power
goes off. However if
the generator is running
at the time, some
battery inverters can
operate when
disconnected from
batteries. So to
completely de-energize
all components of an
off-grid home you need
to disconnect the
generator and the
battery leads.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">In
this case the home is
required to have fire
sprinklers. There is
pressure pump to provide
flow to these fire
sprinklers-- said pump
being powered by the
inverter/battery
system. I am going to
apply for a waiver to
remove the DC disconnect
requirement on the
grounds that the
pressure pump is
essential fire
suppression equipment.
Instead I will propose
to supply an AC
disconnect (meeting all
requirements for
accessibility and
marking) that will
disconnect all premise
wiring except the
pressure pump. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">By
the way, I will of
course be trying to
apply the logic that the
voltage specification is
for nominal battery
voltage and this project
having a nominal 48 volt
bank does not require
the battery disconnect.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
will let the group know
what response I
receive. Regardless of
how this works in this
jurisdiction, I think
these are both valid
arguments worth trying
in any jurisdiction
requiring the battery
disconnect. Some
officials are amenable
to dialog and
negotiation and some are
less so.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">William
Miller</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Miller Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">17395 Oak
Road, Atascadero, CA
93422</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">CA Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style:solid
none
none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt
0in
0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> RE-wrenches
[mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">On
Behalf Of </b>Jeremy
Rodriguez via
RE-wrenches<br>
<b
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Sent:</b>
Saturday, January
28, 2023 10:12 AM<br>
<b
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">To:</b>
<a
href="mailto:cwarfel@entech-engineering.com"
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cwarfel@entech-engineering.com</a>;
RE-wrenches<br>
<b
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Cc:</b>
Jeremy Rodriguez<br>
<b
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Subject:</b>
Re: [RE-wrenches]
Remote battery
disconnects</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><strong><span
style="color:blue">2020
Code Language:</span></strong><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><em><b><span
style="color:black">480.7
DC Disconnect
Methods.</span></b></em><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><em><b><span
style="color:black">(A)
Disconnecting
Means.</span></b></em><span><b><i><span
style="color:black"> </span></i></b></span><em><span style="color:black">A
disconnecting means
shall be provided
for all ungrounded
conductors derived
from a stationary
battery system with
a voltage over 60
volts dc. A
disconnecting means
shall be readily
accessible and
located within sight
of the battery
system.</span></em><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><em><b><span
style="background-color:rgb(204,204,204);color:black">N</span></b></em><span><b><i><span
style="color:black"> </span></i></b></span><em><b><span
style="color:black">(B)
Emergency
Disconnect.</span></b></em><span><b><i><span
style="color:black"> </span></i></b></span><em><span style="color:black">For
one-family and
two-family
dwellings, a
disconnecting means
or its remote
control for a
stationary battery
system shall be
located at a readily
accessible location
outside the building
for emergency use.
The disconnect shall
be labeled
“EMERGENCY
DISCONNECT”.</span></em><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p><span><b><i><span
style="background-color:rgb(204,204,204);color:black">N</span><span
style="color:black"> </span></i></b></span><em><b><span
style="color:black">(C)
Disconnection of
Series Battery
Circuits.</span></b></em><span><b><i><span
style="color:black"> </span></i></b></span><em><span style="color:black">Battery
circuits exceeding
240 volts dc nominal
between conductors
or to ground and
subject to field
servicing shall have
provisions to
disconnect the
series-connected
strings into
segments not
exceeding 240 volts
dc nominal for
maintenance by
qualified persons.
Non-load-break
bolted or plug-in
disconnects shall be
permitted.</span></em><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div
id="m_7115390210110525282m_-5127136963893056115m_4094476521578825074m_-1017373149271638466AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Jeremy
Rodriguez </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Solar
Installation /
Design</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">All
Solar, Inc. </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">1453
M St. </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Penrose
Colorado 81240</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Sent
by Jeremy's
iPhone. Sorry
for typos and
shorthand. </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">On
Jan 28, 2023, at 7:28
AM, Christopher Warfel
via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"></span> </p>
<p><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">Seems
confusing that the
AHJ is requiring a
disconnect for AC
wiring, not
specific to which
or both panel
types, and then a
dc disconnect with
no code
reference. Was
trying to convey a
reasonable, safe
approach. A lot
of bad information
from fire
department solar
consultants making
a lot of money
fear mongering,
which has led to
this type of
situation. Chris</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
1/27/2023 3:35 PM,
William Miller via
RE-wrenches wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Glenn:</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">As I wrote,
a DC
disconnect is
required.
Here is an
excerpt from
the Q&A
with the
building
official:</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:0.5in;background-color:white"><span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(36,36,36)">4.</span></span><span><span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(36,36,36)"> </span></span><span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(36,36,36)">Will
you be
requiring an
external
disconnect to
disconnect the
AC output of
the inverter
system from
premise
wiring?</span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:0.5in;background-color:white"><span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(200,38,19)">Yes,
as required
per 230.85</span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:0.5in;background-color:white"><span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(36,36,36)">5.</span></span><span><span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(36,36,36)"> </span></span><span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(36,36,36)">Will
you be
requiring an
external
disconnect to
disconnect
batteries from
the inverters?</span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:0.5in;background-color:white"><span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(200,38,19)">Yes</span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If the DC
disconnect was
not required I
would not be
wasting
everyone’s
time with my
post. I try
to be careful
about that,
researching on
my own before
posting and
trying to make
my questions
very clear. I
also try not
to embarrass
myself with
dumb
questions, but
that does
happen
occasionally…</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">William</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Miller Solar</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">17395 Oak
Road,
Atascadero, CA
93422</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">805-438-5600</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">CA Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style:solid
none
none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt
0in
0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> RE-wrenches
[mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">On
Behalf Of </b>Glenn
Burt via
RE-wrenches<br>
<b
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Sent:</b>
Friday,
January 27,
2023 11:46 AM<br>
<b
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">To:</b>
William Miller
via
RE-wrenches<br>
<b
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Cc:</b>
Glenn Burt<br>
<b
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Subject:</b>
Re:
[RE-wrenches]
Remote battery
disconnects</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Does the AHJ really want the batteries
disconnected
from
conductors, or
does he really
just want the
inverters to
stop operating
and producing
AC within the
house?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Obviously there is a big difference here and it
may be
changing as
the code
evolves.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">-Glenn</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos
and spelling
errors.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div
id="m_7115390210110525282m_-5127136963893056115m_4094476521578825074m_-1017373149271638466LGEmailHeader">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">------ Original message------</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">William
Miller via
RE-wrenches</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt">Date: </span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">Fri,
Jan 27, 2023
2:26 PM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt">To: </span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">RE-wrenches;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt">Cc: </span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">William
Miller;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">[RE-wrenches]
Remote battery
disconnects</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Friends:</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">We have a large-ish residential
off-grid
system install
coming up.
The AHJ has
said they will
require a
remote battery
disconnect. I
suspect there
will be fire
sprinkler
controls and a
pressure pump
that would
become
inoperable if
this system
were engaged.
In this case
we will apply
for a waiver.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The last time this was discussed
here as far as
I can find was
October of
2020. At that
time no one
suggested any
specific
battery
disconnect
equipment. </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">To further clarify my needs:
There will be
4 or 5 Radian
8048 inverters
(5 or 6 4/0
battery
circuits,
~350A each)
and two 175
amp PV
recombiner
outputs. That
is 6 poles of
high amperage
DC
disconnects.
</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The battery array will be either
a UnigyII VRLA
or a lithium
of a brand yet
to be
determined.
In the case of
lithium we
will look for
a system that
can remotely
enable a BMS
shutdown. In
the case of a
VRLA
lead-acid, we
will not have
that luxury.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">I have done some considerable
research and
have not found
viable, high
amperage,
remotely
activated
shutdown
equipment.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">I am wondering what hardware
others may be
using to
achieve remote
battery
disconnecting
in these types
of cases..</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">William</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Miller Solar</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA
93422</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><a href="tel:805-438-5600"
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">805-438-5600</a></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">CA Lic. 773985</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:1in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><br>
<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
William Miller<br>
Miller Solar.com<br>
895-438-5600<br>
<a href="http://www.millersolar.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a><br>
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<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Christopher Warfel, PE
Entech Engineering, Inc.
POB 871 Block Island, RI 02807
401-466-8978</pre>
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