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Chris,<br>
I also found Kirk's response to capture what I would've checked
first. Ray is correct about multiple neutral-ground bonds, but
there's a point that I think has been missed. You didn't identify
the generator, and I'm going to assume that it's a portable gasoline
unit. They have GFCIs on the AC output because they're almost never
connected to a solid ground, and that's the safest they can make the
output - they internally bond neutral to the chassis of the gennie
and run the output through a GFCI. When they're connected to an off
grid home there's always going to be a ground loop in a correctly
wired installation, because the Powercenter is the first point of
disconnect and is thus where the overall system neutral-ground bond
should be made. <br>
<br>
In my experience there is no fully Code-compliant solution to this.
At least, I never came up with one, and many years ago neither could
John Wiles when I discussed it with him. You don't want to
disconnect the bond in the E-Panel because if the gennie is the only
bond point and it's disconnected (by unplugging it) your system
ground becomes unbonded. Stationary generators generally separate
the bond, or at least allow it to be separated (small Kohler units
always allowed this), because of this very issue - for prime power
(non-solar) applications the bond is made at the source, but where
it's a secondary source it needs to be separated. Portable
generators don't give this option.<br>
<br>
The best solution John and I came up with is to treat the gennie as
a separately derived system: ground it to its own rod; put it far
enough from the home that you can't touch it and anything grounded
in the home at the same time; bond normally in the E-Panel; and
eliminate or disconnect and tie off the bonding conductor between
the gennie and the PV system. Only by treating it as a separately
derived system can you get around the requirement that all service
equipment must be bonded.<br>
<br>
And if the gennie has a separable neutral-ground bond that's been
opened, I have no idea how to solve your issue... 😉<br>
Allan<br>
-- <br>
<b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Allan
Sindelar</span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman""><br>
</span><a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman"">allan@sindelarsolar.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman""><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">(Former)
NABCEP Certified PV Installation
Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span style="mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">Positive
Energy, Inc<span class="GramE">.<br>
Founder (Retired), Sindelar Solar<br>
</span></span>
<b>505 780-2738 cell</b></span>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
On 12/16/2022 12:44 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:d1f19250-0f06-44ad-36b0-d17fa2ab0e10@solarray.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Undoing the N-G bond at the E panel may not do it either. Are
you sure neutral isn't also bonded in the main distribution
panel? It usually is bonded at the generator, so you definitely
have to unbond there. I'd say 60 to 70% of off grid systems are
not bonded correctly that I've seen. Just what Kirk said: it
should only be bonded N-G at one and only one spot. Check sub
panels too. My record was seven N-G bonds on one site. It
caused the shower to be energized; the customer thought that was
normal....(don't touch the shower head!?!).....That site even
had a N-G bond in the well pump wiring! Took 3 days of
unF***ing that wiring to finally get it.<br>
</p>
<p>It ain't safe, until it's right. The GFCI is doing its job,
and so is the Magnum. Now the electrician has to do his job.
Unless you wired the whole house, you're On to fix it.
Especially off grid, I see an amazing bunch of DIY garbage.
Find out who did the original wiring. Probably not a pro.<br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/16/2022 11:35 AM, Kirk Herander
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADN4JrcEge2w9FFu=2kKySJ4AsQx=Yyn9HJdYTjZM6HmSk4RLg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">You may have neutral and ground connected at more
than 1 location, meaning at the genset and in house panel,
which means the ground is carrying current back to the
generator in parallel with the neutral.
<div><br>
<div>I remember with some Honda portables we had to float
the neutral at the genset or the inverter would trip the
generator's GFI when trying to charge the batteries.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at
1:16 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<div
id="m_-6322699239123822814m_1613139528423491230signature">
<pre><span style="font-size:12pt">The easy answer is try another genset ! You have to be more specific, did it ever work? Is it new? etc. Good Luck !</span></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-size:small">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
<a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" rel="noopener" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a>
e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>
text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>
</div>
<p
id="m_-6322699239123822814m_1613139528423491230reply-intro">On
2022-12-16 10:04 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0px
0.4em;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
<div
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace">Hi
folks:<br>
<br>
We have a new Magnum MS4024 mounted on an E-Panel
using a MidNite Classic 150 and Whiz-Bang JR with
power coming from an array of Trina
TSM365-De06X-05(II) (three strings of three) with
the ME-RC50 and a HUP SolarOne 6-85-14/24 battery.<br>
When we attempt to use the PFC (Power Factored
Charger), the Gen Set’s GFCI outlets trip. Thus far
we have verified the connections are secure, assured
that the gen set is grounded, disconnected the
jumper within the E-Panel between the ground buss
and neutral, checked AC voltages, removed the
MNSPD’s from the buss(s)… Stumped now on what an
appropriate next step should be. How do we get the
PFC to function properly? What are we missing?<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Chris Daum<br>
Oasis Montana Inc.<br>
406-777-4309 or 4321<br>
406-777-4309 fax<br>
<a href="http://www.oasismontana.com" rel="noopener
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.oasismontana.com</a>
<br>
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