<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><div>GRID-Tie Batt. backup must have the AC coupled PV Inverters set with their standard "tight" AC window parameters.</div><div>Not the "loose" OFF-GRID window settings.</div><div><br></div><div>This presents a real problem(Voltage/Frequency) fluctuation when the GRID goes down and the AC coupled Inverters attempt to push energy into the system.</div><div><br></div><div>Back when I was with SMA we had much difficulty attempting to make all this work together.</div><div>There was an attempt to switch the AC coupled Inverters in the OFF-GRID mode when the GRID was not present and then take them out of OFF-GRID mode once GRID was back.</div><div>This was done via a communication aspect from the Sunny Island to the Sunny Boys.</div><div><br></div><div>Unfortunately customers could not be fully satisfied during this time.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">DC coupled PV in GRID-Tie Batt. backup systems do not have this problem.</span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
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-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island grid tie battery back and backup<br>
stability issues with ABB<br>
From: August Goers <<a href="mailto:august@luminalt.com">august@luminalt.com</a>><br>
Date: Tue, September 19, 2017 6:53 am<br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks for the input. Jerry and Howie, you may be referring to the Sunny Island's automatic frequency synchronization mode. This allows the Sunny Island to adjust the frequency to keep clocks accurate. The setting is 250.11 AfraEna and we already have that disabled. My understanding is that the Sunny Island will boost frequency if it purposely wants to kick the inverters off if the batteries are full or if the Sunny Island is overloaded with too much power. In our case, we're just seeing a very unstable voltage and frequency. I have the service codes for the ABB inverters and I'm going to test those out today to see if widening the voltage or frequency parameters make any difference. Regardless, it doesn't seem like a good idea to leave the system as-is if the voltage and frequency are not stable.<div><br></div><div>August</div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div></div></div></div></div> <br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Howie Michaelson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Howie.Michaelson@gmail.com" target="_blank">Howie.Michaelson@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>To follow up on Jerry's note,if the SI is shifting to regulate the incoming charge from the AC coupled inverter, and you don't want this to happen, I believe there is a software switch that will turn this feature off.</div><div dir="auto">And Jerry, have you seen the SI replacement you referred to? Can you say anything else about it?</div><div dir="auto">Howie<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">Howie Michaelson<br>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™<br>Sun Catcher, LLC<br>Solar Energy Systems Sales and Service<br>VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner<br><a href="tel:(802)%20272-0004" value="+18022720004" target="_blank">802-272-0004</a></div></font></span><div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sep 18, 2017 10:14 PM, "Jerry Shafer" <<a href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com" target="_blank">jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="m_-6402225820615827857quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Luminalt<div dir="auto">As l recall the SI will move the freq around to regulate the SMA inverter, not having a SMA it may be attempting to force the inverter down. You can widen the freq programming on the ABB inverter to prevent the shut down but this will not prevent the volts from bouncing around, you may want to adjust the inverter AC volts to get past the wave.. FYI, SMA will shortly have a replacement for the SI thats 240 vac and alot smarter too.</div><font color="#888888"><div dir="auto">Jerry</div></font></div><div class="m_-6402225820615827857elided-text"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sep 18, 2017 1:26 PM, "Peter Giroux" <<a href="mailto:pgiroux@mindspring.com" target="_blank">pgiroux@mindspring.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u> <div bgcolor="#ffffff"> <div><font size="2">August</font></div> <div><font size="2"></font> </div> <div><font size="2"> We had something similar happen a few years ago on an AC coupled application using a 5048 Sunny Island ( with transformer ) and a Sunny Boy 7000. In a grid down scenario the Sunny boy dropped off line. After a few calls with SMA sharing the error codes it turned out the Sunny Island was not delivering 60 hertz, not even 59, so we had to reprogram the Sunny Boy to recognize and run on 57 hertz.</font></div> <div><font size="2"></font> </div> <div><font size="2"> SMA was gracious enough to share the "magic code " and walk me through the programming. Once the Sunny Boy was reset to operate on the lower hertz range everything worked great. You may have a similar situation, not sure if the ABB folks will help with the hertz adjustment but you should give it a try before springing for a sunny boy.</font></div> <div><font size="2"></font> </div> <div><font size="2">Peter Giroux</font></div> <div><font size="2">ASAE</font></div> <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px"> <div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title="august@luminalt.com" href="mailto:august@luminalt.com" target="_blank">August Goers</a> </div> <div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches</a> </div> <div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 18, 2017 5:48 PM</div> <div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island grid tie battery back and backup stability issues with ABB</div> <div><br></div> <div dir="ltr">Hi Wrenches - <div><br></div> <div>We have an ~3 year old grid tied battery backup system with a SMA Sunny Island 4548 and Power-One (now ABB) PVI-5000 inverter. There is also an Outback PSX-240 to boost the Sunny Island voltage to 240 volts. </div> <div><br></div> <div>We recently returned to the site for an annual service call and tested the system by simulating a power outage. The Sunny Island kicked in just fine and provided stable voltage for the backup loads. However, the ABB tries to connect and immediately we see that voltage and frequency of the Sunny Island grid start to rapidly fluctuate. I have a feeling that my Fluke meter is not capturing the fluctuations properly, but I was seeing voltage fluctuate in the 238 to 242 volt range and frequency rapidly fluctuate between 59 and 61 Hz. </div> <div><br></div> <div>The ABB connects for a minute or two and then gives us a grid out of range error. This occurs when we have lots of irradiance and also under relatively low light conditions. I've already been on the phone with SMA tech support several times and verified that all the Sunny Island settings are good.</div> <div><br></div> <div>Has anyone else seen this type of instability issue and did you find a fix? We might need to install a Sunny Boy. <br> <div class="gmail_extra"><br></div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br></div> <div class="gmail_extra">Thanks,</div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br></div> <div class="gmail_extra">August<br clear="all"> <div> <div class="m_-6402225820615827857m_-3005531380123884282m_651005448706805140gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Century Gothic','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:9pt">August Goers</span></b></div> <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Century Gothic','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:8pt">Luminalt</span></div> <div><br></div> <div> </div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div> <div> </div><hr> <div></div>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.<wbr>org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a 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