<div dir="ltr"><img width="0" height="0" class="mailtrack-img" alt="" style="display:flex" src="https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/9a449b6aaaa9347d5b2aa5014f391f188281fee0.png?u=1613865"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I definitely think this would have helped. It's a strange thing to consider... If a rail were added, would there be another failure point, like the roof attachments, which would probably be a worse scenario? It's hard to tell. There is a economic limit to how hardy we make these systems. At a certain point, any installation will fail. Who's to say a small tornado didn't pluck a system? I guess we have to consider what an acceptable loss level is. It's no different than other building products like roofing and windows. I have seen roof tiles stripped from a home and an identical adjacent home with solar panels completely undamaged. It's luck of the draw.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 10:07 AM, Glenn Burt <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:glenn.burt@glbcc.com" target="_blank">glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">







    
  
<div style="margin-bottom:45px">
    <div style="font-size:10pt"><div dir="auto">I wonder if a third rail would have prevented many of these escapees.</div><div dir="auto">Not even attached to the structure, just to every module.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div id="m_-2739443137431148725LGEmailSignatureBox" dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><i>Glenn</i></div><div dir="auto"><i>Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typographical errors.</i></div></div></div><div style="font-size:10pt"><span class=""><div id="m_-2739443137431148725LGEmailHeader" dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">------ Original message------</div><div dir="auto"><b>From: </b>Ray<u></u><u></u></div><div dir="auto"><b>Date: </b>Fri, Sep 15, 2017 9:43 AM</div><div dir="auto"><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.<wbr>org</a>;</div><div dir="auto"><b>Cc: </b></div><div dir="auto"><b>Subject:</b>Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div>
    </span><div><div class="h5"><p>What was the pressure rating for the modules that got sucked off
      the racks?  Also, is it possible that flying debris caused some of
      the random location module failures?</p>
    <p>Ray Walters</p>
    <p>Remote Solar<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="m_-2739443137431148725moz-cite-prefix">On 9/14/17 1:53 PM, Jason Szumlanski
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr"><img class="m_-2739443137431148725mailtrack-img" alt="" style="display:flex" width="0" height="0" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7">
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">More early
          anecdotal data...</div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We are finding
          NO anchors pulled out of roofs, regardless of roof type or
          attachment type. That is clearly not the failure point. We
          also see no attachment to L-foot or L-foot to rail issues. And
          contrary to my expectation, we see no t-bolt failures. What's
          happening? The panels themselves are flexing (bowing)
          sufficiently to work their way right out of the mid-clamps.
          This applies both to Unirac's older 1-inch space clamps and
          newer 1/4 inch bonding mid-clamps.</div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This attached
          pictured system had panels on a north roof pitched very
          slightly to the south. We had northeast hurricane winds in
          this area, and the way the wind went under these panels was
          obviously what caused the panels themselves to fail. This is
          an essentially flat roof commercial application. It was bad
          luck to have the wind direction from the northeast corner (the
          NW edge of the eye wall passed right over this area). But we
          are seeing similar results on residential pitched hip and
          gable roofs in terms of the failure mode.</div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">What's
          interesting is that there is no rhyme or reason to where in
          the array we see damage. I have seen absolutely no
          catastrophic damage on a residential roof - just one or 2
          modules mostly. And the missing module can be on the lower
          edge, upper edge, or right in the middle of the array. More
          often than not, the t-bolt and mid-clamp assembly is still
          sitting right there in the channel of the Unirac Solarmount
          rail, but a module is missing. It's quite freaky.</div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">And much like
          tornado damage I have seen on TV, houses adjacent to each
          other have very different fates. We have a new community (100+
          homes slated for solar) with about two dozen homes completed,
          and just one home had a panel pop out in the middle of an
          array. It was gently deposited onto the adjacent panel with
          absolutely no damage and the DC leads still connected to the
          microinverter.</div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">One issue we
          are facing is that when panels fly off, something has to give
          with the DC leads to microinverters. No panel leads have been
          broken so far. In most cases, the MC4 connectors simple
          un-snap somehow - no loss of crimped connectors. We have a few
          cases of leads ripped out of the microinverter case
          completely. The microinverter bracket is badly bent on many
          microinverters, indicating that there was tremendous force
          until something gave up. I am extremely hesitant to reuse
          these microinverters because the force on the DC input leads
          must have been huge. I think we are going to insist on
          microinverter replacement when replacing modules in these
          cases.</div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Hopefully I
          will have more, but not too much more to come. It looks like
          we did very well here (as an industry). There are spotty
          issues, but it's far from the catastrophe that kept me up for
          multiple nights before and after Irma. Then again, many people
          have not returned home yet.</div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
          <div>​Jason Szumlanski</div>
          <div>Florida Solar Design Group​</div>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 6:18 PM,
            Jason Szumlanski <span dir="ltr"><<u></u><a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" target="_blank">jason@<wbr>floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>><u></u></span>
            wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div dir="ltr"><img src="cid:part3.67593BB0.3BA2F4B5@solarray.com" alt="Inline image 1" width="1" height="1">
                <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'm
                  based in Fort Myers and we cover the hardest hit areas
                  from Irma. We are in the "stuff" right now, so I'll
                  make this brief until I have more time, which might be
                  a while. We are seeing quite a bit of minor damage and
                  some major damage. We're getting calls from all
                  dealers' customers and a couple of our own clients. We
                  have several homes with one or two panels dislodged.
                  There is no rhyme or reason. Some are middle of
                  arrays, some on edges. Panels are ripped right off
                  rails, leads ripped from microinverters. Strangely, it
                  looks like the panel j-box connection and MC4
                  connectors survived better than the microinverter end
                  of the DC leads. Amazingly, we have several panels
                  that were blown onto driveways, other roofs, and pool
                  cages with NO DAMAGE except frame scrapes. Very weird.
                  We haven't seen a shattered panel yet, but it's early.</div>
                <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
                </div>
                <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'm
                  heading to a self-storage facility tomorrow where
                  there are three 25kw systems on different buildings.
                  Two buildings are unscathed. One building lost ALL of
                  the panels apparently. Tornado? Hard to say.</div>
                <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
                </div>
                <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">So
                  far (other than the 25kw I have not evaluated) we have
                  not seen a single fastener pulled out. All of the
                  failures are panel top and mid clamps at this time.
                  Anchor and rails remain intact. Possibly installation
                  errors? Possibly sheared off T-bolts? Hard to tell and
                  we may never fully know.</div>
                <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
                </div>
                <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We
                  generally require 48 inch spacing between anchors into
                  trusses for engineered systems. The pullout values are
                  pretty high. It looks like the attachment points into
                  the roof are not going to be the failure point in the
                  systems in Florida, but there is a LOT of work to be
                  done still. It's going to be a very interesting few
                  months ahead!</div>
                <span class="m_-2739443137431148725gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
                    <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
                    </div>
                  </font></span>
                <div class="gmail_extra"><span class="m_-2739443137431148725gmail-HOEnZb"><u></u>
                      <u></u>​Jason
                        Szumlanski<u></u><u></u></span></div>
                      <u></u>Florida
                        Solar Design Group​<u></u></div>
                      <u></u>​<u></u></blockquote></div>
                      <br>
                    
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div>
                      <div class="m_-2739443137431148725gmail-h5">On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:09
                        PM, James Rudolph <span dir="ltr"><<u></u><a href="mailto:jamesrudolph99@gmail.com" target="_blank">jamesrudolph99@gmail.com</a>><u></u></span>
                        wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div>
                        <div class="m_-2739443137431148725gmail-h5">
                          <div dir="ltr">Aloha Everyone,
                            <div>I was just wondering how all the PV
                              arrays did during these storms?</div>
                            <div>Does Florida have higher pull out
                              values and wind designs for their PV/H20
                              systems?</div>
                            <div>Is there any thing the rest of us could
                              learn from all this?</div>
                            <div>Photos?</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Mahalo Nui Loa,</div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <u></u>
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                            <div dir="ltr">
                                              <div>
                                                <u></u><br>
                                                <p></p>
                                                <u></u><b><u></u><u></u>James
                                                        B. Rudolph<u></u><u></u></b><p></p>
                                                <p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial"><u></u><b>Hawaii
                                                      Unified</b><u></u></p>
                                                <u></u><b><u></u><u></u>Director
                                                        of Energy<u></u><u></u></b><p></p>
                                                <u></u><b><u></u><u></u>ES
                                                        Electrician #
                                                        10816<u></u><u></u></b><p></p>
                                                <u></u><b><u></u><u></u>NABCEP
                                                        Certified PV
                                                        Installer #
                                                        <a href="tel:091209-155" target="_blank">091209-155</a><u></u><u></u></b><p></p>
                                                <u></u><b><u></u><u></u>80<u></u><u></u></b><p></p>
                                              <u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u><u></u></div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                <u></u></div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote></div>
                      <span class="m_-2739443137431148725gmail-">
                        <br>
                      </span></div></div></blockquote>
                  
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