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<p>Am I missing something? We all know of a couple notable L-ion
related issues such as the Samsung cell batteries and there were
3-4 Boeing 767 batteries that flamed out but these are relatively
isolated incidents compared to the hundreds of millions of L-ion
batteries of that same chemistry out there that are working fine.
<br>
</p>
<p> I have had and have heard a number of reports on this
list of various levels of severity of thermal run-a-ways of LA
batts, some pretty nasty. There are all sorts of protection for
worst case scenarios integrated in cars, houses, woodstoves, water
heaters, the list goes on. Somehow we have managed to survive the
fact that there are some 300 million cars driving around with
tanks of gasoline strapped to our cars.</p>
<p> I suspect L-ion batteries in electric cars are here
for awhile. There have been very few fires in the hundreds of
thousands of electric cars on the road. Last I checked, the stats
were better than fires from cars with gas tanks. Of course the
electric car battery has to be light. Lithium iron would never
work for mobile apps. As time goes on, the industry will make
L-ion batteries even safer.</p>
<p>Bill</p>
<p>Feather River Solar Electric<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/11/2017 1:06 PM, Ray wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:9e519c62-44cd-5978-fa42-961832371af6@solarray.com"
type="cite">
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<p>Simpliphi is another Li+ that is very much worth looking at
too. It comes in nominal voltages that are usable (unlike
Tesla) such as 12 v, 24v, and 48 v. It is also rated to 10,000
cycles to 80% DOD, which actually could outlast the rest of the
system. It is Lithium Iron phosphate which is heavier than the
Tesla, but not prone to thermal runaway. I haven't tried them
yet, so I'm just in study mode. The voltage stability as the
battery discharges is very attractive. Even at high discharge
rates, it holds above nominal voltage to 90% DOD.</p>
<p>My problem is I have not been able to figure out how much we
can under size these relative to their lead acid counterparts.
Being that they have better capacity at high discharge rates,
are less temperature sensitive, can't freeze, and can be
discharged 100%, I'm guessing we can downsize them by about
half, but I think it would really depend on the application. <br>
Anyone that is using Li+ (like Larry Crutcher) want to chime in
on sizing of Li+ battery banks compared to lead acid?
Downsizing is the only way we could possibly start making these
affordable.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R. Ray Walters
Chief Technical Officer, RemoteSolar.com
BS Mech Engineering, 1988
Former NABCEP Certified, 2004-2016
Licensed Master ELectrician, Colorado
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/11/17 9:51 AM, Chris Mason
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAG6C1qnUuMwG1AHhG2vOre6_kmh53DvwnhqCrGeWg7XcJ93-VQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Don't ignore Sonnen, their ECO16 is a solid
Lithium based solution. We installed one in Anguilla and, once
we got through some software issues, the system performed
solidly.
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 9:43 PM, jay
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">HI All,<br>
<br>
I hesitate to bring this up, but I’ve had some questions
come my way about the “new” Tesla 2.0<br>
battery backup units. And with the demise of Aquion, looks
like Lithium and LA are pretty much the only games in
town.<br>
<br>
I have been able to find quite little on line ( surprise),
pretty much nothing from Tesla directly, but some from
other folks by google search.<br>
<br>
Does anyone on the list here know anything solid?<br>
For example.<br>
what inverter is being used?<br>
how do they stack?<br>
battery chemistry?<br>
actual size ( depending on which info it changes)<br>
are they actually shipping?<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
jay<br>
<br>
peltz power<br>
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-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Chris Mason
<div>
<div style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><span
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target="_blank">www.cometsolar.com</a></div>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.frenergy.net">www.frenergy.net</a></pre>
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