<font face="georgia" size="3"><p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">here are a couple of pictures i took from about 14 years ago. this is a system i did not build, but was called in to diagnose the problem, which illustrates what happens when there is corrosion on a battery terminal and poorly made cables.</p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">todd</p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><img src="cid:P1151383-s.JPG@1485015190.2226" alt=""><img src="cid:P1151380-s.JPG@1485015190.271" alt=""></p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><br /><br />On Saturday, January 21, 2017 7:52am, "Dave Palumbo" <palumbo131m@gmail.com> said:<br /><br /></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;">Hi Chris,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;">I don't have any pictures myself, the Backwoods email included a photo of a corroded bolt and a clean assembly which I've snipped and attached.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;">Off the Wrenches list I have had a conversation with another wrench who shared his successful methods which I will share here.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;"><<</span> The issue I remember from before on this thread was do you put the material between the lug and post or outside of it?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">And I’m not sure from the article if it was put on between or outside?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Personally I’ve done between and never had a problem. Yes I’ve seen corrosion around the lug, but take the lug off and its clean. Outside seals the corrosion in, inside prevents it from forming IMO.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">However, if the bolt got lose, it would generate heat, which would melt out any and all material, creating oxidation, more heat and away you go to failure mode.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Also the photo doesn’t show split/lock washer. I think its really important as the lead does flow over time, so no matter how tight you make it, it will loosen up over time especially with higher currents/heat.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">The lock washer will buy you some time before needing to retorque the fasteners.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> I’m curious about the damage mode to the inverter and all that. I don’t understand how a short on the battery would destroy all the electronics?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">I’ve gone to a battery angle grinder with flappy wheel to prep the terminal posts. - fast. >></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #4f81bd;">My response to him.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;">I wondered about the failure of those big expensive components too, but I have never had a dead short for more than a split second at the batteries (a few misplaced cables when working too quickly are easily dealt with). I have been installing a catastrophic class T fuse between the battery bank and the DC distribution center breaker also.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;">I would always buff the cable ends with a green scrubbie and file the battery terminals to remove any corrosion and then lightly coat all surfaces, including all the hardware thoroughly (incldng lock washer), with petroleum jelly before assembling and tightening (very tight - tight as I could without breaking the hardware, lead starts to compress). I've been very happy with doing it this way for 30+ years. Learned much of this from Peter Talmage and Rob Wills here back east as well as from Richard Perez (RIP).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;"> Dave</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="color: #1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; color: windowtext;">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; color: windowtext;"> RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>cwarfel<br /><strong>Sent:</strong> Saturday, January 21, 2017 9:54 AM<br /><strong>To:</strong> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<br /><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden corrosion caused catastrophic battery system failure</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"><tt><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;">Hi David, do you have any pictures of this that could be shared? Chris</span></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">On 1/20/2017 12:52 PM, Dave Palumbo wrote:</p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top: 5.0pt; margin-bottom: 5.0pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman , serif','serif';">Following is an entry from a Backwoods Solar email that I received today. I would like to share this as a teachable point for RE techs not familiar enough with proper battery bank care and as a reminder for those of us with years of storage battery experience. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman , serif','serif';">I have underlined the two issues in the Backwoods email copied below my bullet points to highlight the teachable issues.</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0;padding:0;mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; text-indent: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">·<span style="font: 7.0pt 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman , serif','serif';">Checking wiring connections: Check not only for tightness but also for temperature. There are two simple methods that work well: #1) Use an IR Thermometer to ensure all connections are of a similar moderate temperature. #2) Use your fingers to check temperatures. I'm practiced at this second method because inexpensive IR thermometers were not available when I began to care for storage batteries. I simply use my bare fingers (with a light coating of petroleum jelly) to wiggle test each battery cable at the battery terminal. Fingers are sensitive enough to gauge proper temperature. I have easily found several warm or hot connection points over the years caused by loose or corroded hardware. Do this as preventive maintenance every time you water the batteries or bi-monthly with sealed cells. Corrective measures (tightening, or taking apart and cleaning, or replacing, and reinstalling) are taken immediately when a warmer than usual connection is identified.</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0;padding:0;mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; text-indent: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">·<span style="font: 7.0pt 'Times New Roman';"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman , serif','serif';">It is not recommended by most veteran wrenches to use any "anti-corrosion paste" on the terminal connections. This has been discussed a few times over the years on the Wrenches list. Most of us have found that a thin coating of petroleum jelly (Vaseline is one brand) does the best job of protecting against corrosion while still allowing some visual inspection.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">from Backwoods Solar 1/20/17. << This past summer Backwoods had a visit from one of our retired co-workers, xxxxx. While it is always good to have friends visit, the circumstances for his dropping by were less than ideal.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman , serif','serif';">A small, catastrophic failure had led to the loss of a battery bank, two inverters, and a voltage converter. Ultimately, the failure was traced back to a single nut and bolt in the battery bank cable connections, that had developed hidden corrosion over time. Corrosion causes resistance to the flow of electricity, which in turn generates heat. With enough corrosion, and enough current flow, the amount of heat generated can be sufficient to melt battery terminal connections; which is exactly what happened in xxxxx’s case. The melted metal flowed between the negative and positive terminals of his industrial battery, causing a high power short that was beyond the capabilities of any of the circuit protection, resulting in the damage to the equipment.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman , serif','serif';">Now keep in mind, xxxxx is one of the more detail-oriented people we’ve had here at Backwoods. The discipline of a military background, along with critical thinking of an engineer, were still not enough to overlook one very tiny detail. xxxxx does his mechanical maintenance on a routine schedule; <span style="text-decoration: underline;">checking for tightness in wiring connections</span>, cleaning accumulated spray off battery tops, cleaning out dust and spider webs, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">and keeping his battery terminal posts coated with anti-corrosion paste.</span> This is not the type of person you’d expect to see such a failure.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman , serif','serif';">So what happened? It all boiled down to the battery terminal connections. What xxxxx had NOT done, was dissembled the nut and bolts from the battery terminals and cables to check for internal, hidden corrosion. It had been about 6 years since he had done that level of inspection. When previously reviewed, the hardware had been thoroughly inspected, cleaned, and re-assembled, and then coated with <span style="text-decoration: underline;">anti-corrosion paste on the exterior</span>. In one of the 16 nut/bolt pairs, a small bit of contamination or moisture must have been left trapped inside. Over the course of the next six years, the corrosion grew, contaminating the entire connection; but was NOT visible externally at all! >></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman , serif','serif';">Best regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman , serif','serif';">Dave</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">David Palumbo</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Independent Power LLC</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">462 Solar Way Drive</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">Hyde Park, VT 05655</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">802-371-8678 cell</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;">802-888-4917 home</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;font-family: georgia; font-size: 12pt; word-wrap: break-word;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0;padding:0;mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman , serif','serif';"> </span></p>
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<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">-- </pre>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">Christopher Warfel, PE</pre>
<p style="margin:0;padding:0;">Entech Engineering, Inc.</pre>
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