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When I'm evaluating an old system, one thing I do is really yank on
all the battery connections. If it turns, tighten it down, and in
several cases, the cable just pulls loose from the connector. They
are time consuming to do right. Cable has to be stripped long
enough, the crimper needs to be set correctly, and be the right
crimper for the particular lug. <br>
Below is an example of:<br>
the wrong cable (THHN, not X Flex)<br>
Not enough cable stripped<br>
Wrong Size Lug<br>
Not Crimped Properly<br>
Not Vaselined<br>
<img src="cid:part1.2E2D58FD.47EEBB69@solarray.com" alt=""><br>
Now let's put 150 amps continuous through that garbage and see if we
have some long term issues......<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/21/2017 3:16 PM, Dan Fink wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAF+3LneepKxezZ7EZ9_ypkSrOhMiKybdOLH7OF+O7CHUE345Og@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Last weekend. 3-year old, 24v battery bank,
series/parallel.
<div>6v Trojan L-16 in an 8-battery bank, one battery on one
string showing 4v. Negative end of string. Replaced the one
upstream of it last summer, same problem. Aha! I say, and
folks here on the Wrenches list (including me) complaining
about Trojan cell failures, factory defects (I've had one too)
and that the battery on the negative end fails first. Darn you
Trojan. Up your game.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3yr - 3yr - 3yr - 3yr</div>
<div>4v - new - bubbling - 3yr</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So as I am disconnecting this string so the homeowner has
at least half a battery bank, I can hear the next battery
upstream of the NEW one bubbling, with no power in or out,
system shut down. Didn't need the thermal imager this time, we
could feel it was hot.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And, as we are doing this disconnect and pulling off
interconnects, the cable between the 4v battery and the new
one pulled right out of the ring terminal lug. Bad crimp.
Cause of problem now known. These were factory interconnects
purchased from AltEDirect.com.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Never again...I have the tools to make up interconnects and
do it on small projects, it's just they are so time consuming
to do right (crimper, glue-melt heat shrink, etc) that it
costs me more in labor (unless I have student interns working
for free) than buying them from AltE.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That crappy crimp cost my customer 3 Trojan L-16s. I have
notified AltE. They should be ashamed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I believe it was Mr. Tom Duffy, SolarBiz, on this list who
pointed out during the Trojan thread that cell failures were
rare, most failures are due bad connections. I've had a real
cell failure (Trojan J185) but in this case, Mr. Duffy was
spot-on.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="m_-8822420106587573857gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
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<div><span
style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Dan
Fink</span>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Adjunct
Professor of Solar Energy Technology,
Ecotech Institute</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">IREC
Certified Instructor™ for: </div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~
PV Installation Professional</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">~
Small Wind Installer</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Executive
Director, Buckville Energy</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">NABCEP
Registered Continuing Education
Providers™<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:970.672.4342"
value="+19706724342"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)"
target="_blank">970.672.4342</a></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 7:54 AM,
cwarfel <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwarfel@entech-engineering.com"
target="_blank">cwarfel@entech-engineering.<wbr>com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><font size="+1"><tt>Hi David, do you have any
pictures of this that could be shared? Chris</tt></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div
class="m_-8822420106587573857m_6612796613243774516moz-cite-prefix">On
1/20/2017 12:52 PM, Dave Palumbo wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
class="m_-8822420106587573857m_6612796613243774516WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Following is an entry
from a Backwoods Solar email that I received
today. I would like to share this as a teachable
point for RE techs not familiar enough with
proper battery bank care and as a reminder for
those of us with years of storage battery
experience. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I have underlined the two
issues in the Backwoods email copied below my
bullet points to highlight the teachable issues.</span></p>
<p
class="m_-8822420106587573857m_6612796613243774516MsoListParagraph"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman""> </span></span></span><span>Checking
wiring connections: Check not only for tightness
but also for temperature. There are two simple
methods that work well: #1) Use an IR
Thermometer to ensure all connections are of a
similar moderate temperature. #2) Use your
fingers to check temperatures. I'm practiced at
this second method because inexpensive IR
thermometers were not available when I began to
care for storage batteries. I simply use my bare
fingers (with a light coating of petroleum
jelly) to wiggle test each battery cable at the
battery terminal. Fingers are sensitive enough
to gauge proper temperature. I have easily found
several warm or hot connection points over the
years caused by loose or corroded hardware. Do
this as preventive maintenance every time you
water the batteries or bi-monthly with sealed
cells. Corrective measures (tightening, or
taking apart and cleaning, or replacing, and
reinstalling) are taken immediately when a
warmer than usual connection is identified.</span></p>
<p
class="m_-8822420106587573857m_6612796613243774516MsoListParagraph"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman""> </span></span></span><span>It
is not recommended by most veteran wrenches to
use any "anti-corrosion paste" on the terminal
connections. This has been discussed a few times
over the years on the Wrenches list. Most of us
have found that a thin coating of petroleum
jelly (Vaseline is one brand) does the best job
of protecting against corrosion while still
allowing some visual inspection.</span></p>
<p>from Backwoods Solar 1/20/17. << This past
summer Backwoods had a visit from one of our
retired co-workers, xxxxx. While it is always
good to have friends visit, the circumstances for
his dropping by were less than ideal.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>A small, catastrophic
failure had led to the loss of a battery bank,
two inverters, and a voltage converter.
Ultimately, the failure was traced back to a
single nut and bolt in the battery bank cable
connections, that had developed hidden corrosion
over time. Corrosion causes resistance to the
flow of electricity, which in turn generates
heat. With enough corrosion, and enough current
flow, the amount of heat generated can be
sufficient to melt battery terminal connections;
which is exactly what happened in xxxxx’s case.
The melted metal flowed between the negative and
positive terminals of his industrial battery,
causing a high power short that was beyond the
capabilities of any of the circuit protection,
resulting in the damage to the equipment.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Now keep in mind, xxxxx
is one of the more detail-oriented people we’ve
had here at Backwoods. The discipline of a
military background, along with critical
thinking of an engineer, were still not enough
to overlook one very tiny detail. xxxxx does
his mechanical maintenance on a routine
schedule; <u>checking for tightness in wiring
connections</u>, cleaning accumulated spray
off battery tops, cleaning out dust and spider
webs, <u>and keeping his battery terminal posts
coated with anti-corrosion paste.</u> This is
not the type of person you’d expect to see such
a failure.</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So what happened? It all
boiled down to the battery terminal
connections. What xxxxx had NOT done, was
dissembled the nut and bolts from the battery
terminals and cables to check for internal,
hidden corrosion. It had been about 6 years
since he had done that level of inspection.
When previously reviewed, the hardware had been
thoroughly inspected, cleaned, and re-assembled,
and then coated with <u>anti-corrosion paste on
the exterior</u>. In one of the 16 nut/bolt
pairs, a small bit of contamination or moisture
must have been left trapped inside. Over the
course of the next six years, the corrosion
grew, contaminating the entire connection; but
was NOT visible externally at all! >></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Best regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Dave</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David Palumbo </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Independent Power LLC</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">462 Solar Way Drive</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hyde Park, VT 05655</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28802%29%20371-8678"
value="+18023718678" target="_blank">802-371-8678</a>
cell</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28802%29%20888-4917"
value="+18028884917" target="_blank">802-888-4917</a>
home</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="m_-8822420106587573857m_6612796613243774516moz-signature" cols="72">--
Christopher Warfel, PE
Entech Engineering, Inc.
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28401%29%20466-8978" value="+14014668978" target="_blank">401-466-8978</a></pre>
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