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<p><font size="+1"><tt>Thanks Dave, This is all helpful. We do<tt> <tt>9<tt>0%
battery sys<tt>tems, and I need to emp<tt>ha<tt>s<tt>ize
periodic mainten<tt>ance. This will help<tt>.
Chris</tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></tt></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/21/2017 10:52 AM, Dave Palumbo
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Chris,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I don't have
any pictures myself, the Backwoods email included a photo of
a corroded bolt and a clean assembly which I've snipped and
attached.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Off the
Wrenches list I have had a conversation with another wrench
who shared his successful methods which I will share here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><<</span>
The issue I remember from before on this thread was do you put
the material between the lug and post or outside of it?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And I’m not sure from the article if it was
put on between or outside?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Personally I’ve done between and never had
a problem. Yes I’ve seen corrosion around the lug, but take
the lug off and its clean. Outside seals the corrosion in,
inside prevents it from forming IMO.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, if the bolt got lose, it would
generate heat, which would melt out any and all material,
creating oxidation, more heat and away you go to failure mode.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Also the photo doesn’t show split/lock
washer. I think its really important as the lead does flow
over time, so no matter how tight you make it, it will loosen
up over time especially with higher currents/heat.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The lock washer will buy you some time
before needing to retorque the fasteners.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> I’m curious about the damage mode to the
inverter and all that. I don’t understand how a short on the
battery would destroy all the electronics?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ve gone to a battery angle grinder with
flappy wheel to prep the terminal posts. - fast. >><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#4F81BD">My response to
him.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I wondered
about the failure of those big expensive components too, but
I have never had a dead short for more than a split second
at the batteries (a few misplaced cables when working too
quickly are easily dealt with). I have been installing a
catastrophic class T fuse between the battery bank and the
DC distribution center breaker also.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I would always
buff the cable ends with a green scrubbie and file the
battery terminals to remove any corrosion and then lightly
coat all surfaces, including all the hardware thoroughly
(incldng lock washer), with petroleum jelly before
assembling and tightening (very tight - tight as I could
without breaking the hardware, lead starts to compress).
I've been very happy with doing it this way for 30+ years.
Learned much of this from Peter Talmage and Rob Wills here
back east as well as from Richard Perez (RIP).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> Dave</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
RE-wrenches
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>cwarfel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 21, 2017 9:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden corrosion
caused catastrophic battery system failure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><tt><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Hi David, do you have any
pictures of this that could be shared? Chris</span></tt><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/20/2017 12:52 PM, Dave Palumbo
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman
, serif","serif"">Following is an entry
from a Backwoods Solar email that I received today. I
would like to share this as a teachable point for RE techs
not familiar enough with proper battery bank care and as a
reminder for those of us with years of storage battery
experience. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman
, serif","serif"">I have underlined the two
issues in the Backwoods email copied below my bullet
points to highlight the teachable issues.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman
, serif","serif"">Checking wiring
connections: Check not only for tightness but also for
temperature. There are two simple methods that work well:
#1) Use an IR Thermometer to ensure all connections are of
a similar moderate temperature. #2) Use your fingers to
check temperatures. I'm practiced at this second method
because inexpensive IR thermometers were not available
when I began to care for storage batteries. I simply use
my bare fingers (with a light coating of petroleum jelly)
to wiggle test each battery cable at the battery terminal.
Fingers are sensitive enough to gauge proper temperature.
I have easily found several warm or hot connection points
over the years caused by loose or corroded hardware. Do
this as preventive maintenance every time you water the
batteries or bi-monthly with sealed cells. Corrective
measures (tightening, or taking apart and cleaning, or
replacing, and reinstalling) are taken immediately when a
warmer than usual connection is identified.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman
, serif","serif"">It is not recommended by
most veteran wrenches to use any "anti-corrosion paste" on
the terminal connections. This has been discussed a few
times over the years on the Wrenches list. Most of us have
found that a thin coating of petroleum jelly (Vaseline is
one brand) does the best job of protecting against
corrosion while still allowing some visual inspection.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>from Backwoods Solar 1/20/17. << This past summer
Backwoods had a visit from one of our retired co-workers,
xxxxx. While it is always good to have friends visit, the
circumstances for his dropping by were less than ideal.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman
, serif","serif"">A small, catastrophic
failure had led to the loss of a battery bank, two
inverters, and a voltage converter. Ultimately, the
failure was traced back to a single nut and bolt in the
battery bank cable connections, that had developed hidden
corrosion over time. Corrosion causes resistance to the
flow of electricity, which in turn generates heat. With
enough corrosion, and enough current flow, the amount of
heat generated can be sufficient to melt battery terminal
connections; which is exactly what happened in xxxxx’s
case. The melted metal flowed between the negative and
positive terminals of his industrial battery, causing a
high power short that was beyond the capabilities of any
of the circuit protection, resulting in the damage to the
equipment.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman
, serif","serif"">Now keep in mind, xxxxx
is one of the more detail-oriented people we’ve had here
at Backwoods. The discipline of a military background,
along with critical thinking of an engineer, were still
not enough to overlook one very tiny detail. xxxxx does
his mechanical maintenance on a routine schedule; <u>checking
for tightness in wiring connections</u>, cleaning
accumulated spray off battery tops, cleaning out dust and
spider webs, <u>and keeping his battery terminal posts
coated with anti-corrosion paste.</u> This is not the
type of person you’d expect to see such a failure.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman
, serif","serif"">So what happened? It all
boiled down to the battery terminal connections. What
xxxxx had NOT done, was dissembled the nut and bolts from
the battery terminals and cables to check for internal,
hidden corrosion. It had been about 6 years since he had
done that level of inspection. When previously reviewed,
the hardware had been thoroughly inspected, cleaned, and
re-assembled, and then coated with <u>anti-corrosion
paste on the exterior</u>. In one of the 16 nut/bolt
pairs, a small bit of contamination or moisture must have
been left trapped inside. Over the course of the next six
years, the corrosion grew, contaminating the entire
connection; but was NOT visible externally at all!
>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman
, serif","serif"">Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman
, serif","serif"">Dave</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David Palumbo <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Independent Power LLC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">462 Solar Way Drive<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hyde Park, VT 05655<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">802-371-8678 cell<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">802-888-4917 home<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman
, serif","serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Christopher Warfel, PE<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Entech Engineering, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>401-466-8978<o:p></o:p></pre>
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Christopher Warfel, PE
Entech Engineering, Inc.
401-466-8978</pre>
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