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Yep, the old modules were heavier, had a thicker frame, and most
importantly: much less total surface area. The old 75 w modules
were less than 7 sq ft, compared to almost 18 sq ft of a new 60 cell
module. 2-1/2 times the forces on even thinner metal. <br>
Not that I want to go back to the good ol' days, but I think the
industry got a little too thin on the frame, or at the least, we
need a beefier hardware solution for bottom mounted arrays on open
frames in high wind locations. I'll send a pic of our fix, once we
try it.<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/12/2017 6:01 PM, Dana wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Bottom side
bolt up. But they were 1995 Solarex remember the weight of
those frames!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:#002060">----------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">Dana
Orzel - Great Solar Works, Inc - C - <b>208.721.7003</b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">NABCEP #
051112-136 : Idaho PV Licence # 028374<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">E - <b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com">dana@solarwork.com</a></b>
- Web - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.solarwork.biz">www.solarwork.biz</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black">"Responsible
Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span><span
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consider the environment before printing this email.</span><span
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Gothic","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
RE-wrenches
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Ray Walters<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar World Wind
Damage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Chris & Dana;<br>
<br>
Our site is a mountain in Wyoming and does have some focusing
effects, so maybe 170 mph is possible. Are your arrays using
top down clamps? I think that is apparently stronger, also
possibly the 2011 Sanyos look to have beefier frames.
However, I looked at their spec sheet and they're only rated
at 60 PSF (less than the SWs). From my measurements here of
Solar World 4.0 frames, I'm seeing a flange thickness of
approx 1.3 mm, while an old Siemens SP 75 has 1.8 mm thick
metal. <br>
I'm coming up with a fix for the Solar Worlds: 3/4 x 3/4
Stainless steel Angle fits just inside the lip of the module,
and will distribute the forces more evenly. The question then
is, are we just going to lose the glass next? Anyone have a
currently available module that is beefier? I may recommend
we swap the whole array out, if we are indeed exceeding the
design of the Solar Worlds. <br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">R.Ray Walters<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">CTO, Solarray, Inc<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Nabcep Certified PV Installer, <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Licensed Master Electrician<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Solar Design Engineer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">303 505-8760<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On 1/12/2017
2:39 PM, Chris @ The Oasis wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue">Wrenches:
We have a ~70KW ground mounted array on the Rocky
Mountain front near Choteau, MT. Springs winds are not
unusual with 150 to 175 MPH gusts. The system was
installed in 2011 (with Sanyo 215W modules). No problems
yet; we certainly over-engineered the racks, knowing what
high winds there are!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue">Chris
Daum<br>
Oasis Montana Inc.<br>
406-777-4309<br>
406-777-0830 fax<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.oasismontana.com">www.oasismontana.com</a> <br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in;text-align:center" align="center">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray Walters<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 12, 2017 2:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Sefchick, Steve<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar World Wind Damage</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Hi Bill;<br>
<br>
Solar World customer support did come through yesterday with
flying colors. They got hit by a big storm in the North
West. Right now though, they are saying that we exceeded
the 64 PSF rated loading to the back of the module. I've
pointed out that that would correspond to over 170 mph
winds, so I'm not quite ready to concede the warranty.
Their engineering team is reviewing my information. <br>
As always, the Wrench list experience is invaluable. Are
170 mph winds possible, outside of a tornado or hurricane?<br>
<br>
<b>Whether or not Solar World stands by their product in
this extreme situation, I definitely stand by my
installations.</b> I'm taking a snow cat up to replace and
reinforce the modules next week, then hopefully get a little
help from my supply chain after. My repair costs will be
many times the cost of one replacement module anyway. <br>
<br>
Yes, the 33 mm vs 31 mm refers to the module thickness. I
don't have a version 2.5 frame to check the flange metal
thickness, and it is conspicuously absent from the specs. I
have a good micrometer, and I will compare metal thicknesses
of several module brands, because with all the cost cutting,
many module manus seems to be using thinner metal lately.
As Jay pointed out, we're bolting much bigger modules down
with much weaker flanges, and the same hardware we used on a
75 w module, so its not entirely surprising to start seeing
high wind failures.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">R.Ray Walters<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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