<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Jay I too find this firmware issue questionable. there IS settings on this AGS & Inverter for disconnect using voltage AND or hz. Again voltage 110/55Hz is what I will usually start out with.These additional settings; cool down time and spin down time, I set to the lowest setting possible. This being said….. I would not be a bit surprised that some bonehead code writer had NO idea what Hz was when and IF he set this to 40 Hz. Happy new year to all! TUMP<div class=""><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 31, 2016, at 12:39 PM, jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" class="">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">HI Hugh,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Interesting problem your describe which I've not seen before.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m curious about your comments on Outback. </div><div class="">I’ve found them to be quite programable in regards to disconnecting from a generator. </div><div class="">You can set voltage and cycles. Default comes in at 60 cycles which is 1 second and way too long. </div><div class="">Setting it down to around 10 cycles works with every generator I’ve tried, and from my measurements the inverter seems to be switching on cycles, not voltage.</div><div class="">But maybe I misunderstood what you were saying?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But I know in the old days before inverters got so programable ( or poorly programed in the case of the new SW) that out here on the west coast we installed a contactor which was controlled via either AGS or manual remote start. It shuts the AC off in a hard way yes, and you sure might get a light flicker but you don’t get the voltage/Hz sag being a problem here.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And I’m not sure but seems to me that some of the older generators used to come with an internal contactor that did this?</div><div class="">But none that I’m seeing now do. </div><div class="">Maybe others can comment on that.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And finally I’m curious about how important the cool down period is. </div><div class="">How I set my generator run times, by the time its told to shut down its not running all that hard, which shouldn’t be a problem.</div><div class="">But again, I’ll defer to the genny experts here.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Happy new year </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">jay</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 30, 2016, at 1:13 AM, Hugh Piggott <<a href="mailto:hugh@scoraigwind.co.uk" class="">hugh@scoraigwind.co.uk</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">hi Lou,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t wish to contradict this version of events but if true then it will make the inverter unsuitable for most generators. Here is another scenario I have seen a few times that looks similar but can be fixed.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The inverter charges the battery etc. and decides to turn off the generator. It disconnects. It may or may not have its own “cool down” time for the generator. It then tells the generator to stop. At this point the generator control circuit may decide to run a further cool down period. Meantime incoming AC voltage is still visible to the inverter. The inverter may then decide that it is obliged to connect to this running generator. After any chosen “warm up period” it may go ahead and synch with the running generator and start to draw power just before and during the point where fuel is shut off and it dies. This causes power quality problems and errors in some inverters. Maybe better firmware could fix this. Victron inverters are designed to disconnect on a falling voltage every time, and they do so gracefully. With SMA inverters and Outbacks it’s better avoided.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The best fix for this is to make sure that the generator does not have its own cool down period. If you can access and edit this parameter in the generator this is best. Another fix is to set a longer warmup time in the inverter software but this can cause issues where the generator is being started to meet a high load. In the case of an SMA inverter you can get a fix to it using “genman mode”.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I just wonder if you have witnessed the process and checked whether the generator’s own built-in cool down period could be the cause.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">cheers</div><div class="">Hugh</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 30 Dec 2016, at 00:43, Lou Russo <<a href="mailto:lou@spreesolarsystems.com" class="">lou@spreesolarsystems.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Thanks to all for the input and suggestions, it is much appreciated. Just to be clear about the situation, the inverter has already made the AC transfer, which goes smoothly. The AC IN light is off. At this point the generator is unloaded and there is no battery charging happening. The inverter is carrying the loads. From what Schnieder tells me is that the software is telling the inverter to follow the Hertz of the generator until it's below 40 Hertz. </span><div dir="auto" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">I do believe that manual start is best as it keeps the user in tune with system. It is what I do at my own home. Unfortunately most clients want the autostart and don't want to think about it. This is typically not deal breaker for me and I will push a client only so far on it. In this particular situation the system is 500 ft away from the home. So the autostart is mandatory. </div><div dir="auto" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div>_________<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br class=""><br class="">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" class="">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><br class="">Change listserver email address & settings:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" class="">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><br class="">List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html<br class=""><br class="">List rules & etiquette:<br class="">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<br class=""><br class="">Check out or update participant bios:<br class="">www.members.re-wrenches.org<br class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
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