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Right, the old Trace DC cabinets were bloody knuckle boxes for sure.
Things have come a long way since those days, and still have a ways to
go. <br><br>
<br>
At 02:36 PM 10/12/2016, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Drake:<br>
<br>
Your point brings to mind the evolution of the BOS cabinet:<br>
<br>
1. In the good old days of the SW inverter, the DC cabinet was
all you got, and it was grossly inadequate. Off-the-shelf load
centers were the only choice for the AC side. AC bypassing was a
relatively new concept but it could be done.<br>
2. Prior to having an approved inverter, Outback manufactured
a brilliant system of BOS that fit the SW, the DR and the future FX
series of inverters (the PS series). I believe BoB Gudgel is
responsible for this design and it was genius. <br>
3. Even with improved BOS, there are the shortcomings we have
been discussing. There is always room for improvement and I am
hoping our discussion drives more of that.<br>
<br>
I too believe that plug-on AC breakers are the superior
alternative. They are cheap and readily available.
Generally two load centers are required, one for generator fed and one
for inverter fed. GTBB systems might call for a third panel:
utility fed. Bypass is the only issue that calls for
considerations out of the ordinary for standard load center
installations. Most panel manufacturers provide limited interlock
methods. Where we need to interlock more than two breakers we fab
our own slides. Sure, they are not “listed” but they are a
simple mechanical device and I am comfortable using them.<br>
<br>
There are some challenges to overcome when integrating specialized
inverter equipment with standard electrical components. For
example, connecting standard load centers to an FX inverter is
problematic because the FX KOs are so far from the mounting
surface. This is the part of the work that I enjoy
immensely. We really want to make installations that are reliable,
efficient to install and look good. I have a friend in the
entertainment industry that once said, “aesthetically pleasing
installation are more reliable” True words.<br><br>
<br>
Thanks for you input.<br>
<br>
William<br>
<br>
<br>
<img src="cid:7.1.0.9.0.20161012184117.00a3e9a8@redwoodalliance.org.1" width=64 height=28 alt="Gradient Cap_mini">
<br>
Lic 773985<br>
<a href="http://www.millersolar.com/">millersolar.com</a><br>
805-438-5600<br>
<br>
<b>From:</b> RE-wrenches
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Drake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 12, 2016 6:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches
<<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner<br>
<br>
DC breaker systems should be designed similar to AC bolt on breaker
systems that are used for many commercial and industrial applications.
<br><br>
The explanation for the fact that these don't exist has to do with the
cost of designing and listing the equipment. There is no technical reason
that a DC enclosure needs to be any more difficult to wire than an off
the shelf AC box. <br><br>
The AC breakers in any solar enclosure should certainly be standard snap
on breakers. Once the power has been inverted to AC, there is no
reason to require anything other than standard code requirements.
<br><br>
Drake Chamberlin<br>
<i>Athens Electric LLC<br>
OH License 44810<br>
CO License 3773<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV <br>
740-448-7328<br>
</i><a href="http://athens-electric.com/">http://athens-electric.com/</a>
<br><br>
At 11:31 PM 10/10/2016, you wrote:<br><br>
<dl>
<dd>My students we just today complaining about the access to wires on
the panel mount breakers. The lug idea with separators might be a fix. It
definitely needs to be done differently. In class We added another
inverter to our package and trying to install another 175A breaker was a
pain. We have a few other DC breakers in there already. The whole cabinet
is basically inaccessible. <br><br>
<dd>Jesse Dahl<br><br>
<dd>NABCEP PV Installation Professional<br>
<dd>IBEW Local 292 - Electrician <br>
<dd>Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC<br><br>
<dd>Sent from my iPhone<br><br>
<dd>On Oct 10, 2016, at 9:40 PM, Jerry Shafer
<<a href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com">jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>
> wrote:<br><br>
<br>
<dl>
<dd>You might want to look at the square D QO breaker line some are dc
rated and voltage rated and are panel mounted.<br>
<dd>Jerry<br><br>
<dd>On Oct 10, 2016 3:00 PM, "jay"
<<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<dd>Iâ ll chime in here.<<br>
<dd>Yes the GSLC is a piece of junk. <br>
<dd>However it is UL listed for the job. And while you could put together
something that would work with Airpax breakers together, but it
wouldnât be UL.<br><br>
<dd>What I do is to swap out all the wires to Arctic ultra flex.
This allows much better movement of the wires with significantly less
stress on the terminals. And if you want to not attach wires to
the back of the breakers then you can and Iâve seen outback do it,it,
install lay in lugs facing outwards so you can use a screwdriver or allen
key on them. Allows for installation and removal of wire without
removal of the breaker or the plate/breakers. With thimbles of
course. And I canât find them but I know they make them, shielields
that fit between each breaker so the lay in lugs are insulated.<br>
<dd>jay<br>
<dd>peltz power<br><br>
<br><br>
<dl>
<dd>On Oct 10, 2016, at 4:40 PM, William Miller
<<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com">william@millersolar.com</a>
> wrote:<br>
<dd>Chris:<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Thank you for the reply. I think you misunderstand me.
We always use the GSLC cabinets. I just donât like the design
conceptept that clutters the cabinet with AC and DC breakers that are
difficult to access and block other components. See photo below of
a prewired GSLC Cabinet we were asked to work in. Not a good
scenario.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>We have created an installation standard using the GSLC that
minimizes the problems inherent with the design. We run all AC
leads to adjacent load centers and we try to minimize the DC breakers in
the cabinet. It is our goal to completely eliminate all breakers
from the removable dead-front. I think it is pretty
self-explanatory why one would not prefer to make connections in a hard
to reach location. <br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Our goal is to constantly improve our installation procedures to
create better, safer and more efficient installations. <br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Also, I donât need someone to instructuct me on how to make a
âfinishedâ looking ing install. If you are familiar with my work you
know it is as clean as it gets. Review my web site. Below
is but one example of one of our installs.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>And lastly, âsuck it upâ is nos not a very complimentary
phrase. Please, letâs ks keep it professional.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Sincerely,<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>William Miller<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><image007.jpg><br>
<dd>Figure 1 Factory wired GSLC<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><image008.jpg><br>
<dd>Figure 2 Miller Solar installed GSLC..<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><image009.jpg><br>
<dd>Lic 773985<br>
<dd><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/">millersolar.com</a><br>
<dd><a href="tel:805-438-5600">805-438-5600</a><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>From: RE-wrenches
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" eudora="autourl">
</a><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" eudora="autourl">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Chris Mason<br>
<dd>Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 3:40 PM<br>
<dd>To: RE-wrenches
<<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<dd>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>The GSLC gives the system a nice finished appearance that the
customer will understand. Suck it up and live with the imperfect world we
function in. <br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 5:55 PM, William Miller
<<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com">william@millersolar.com</a>
> wrote:<br>
<br>
<dl>
<dd>Friends:<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>I am looking for a PV recombiner. I need to accept the outputs
from 3 remote PV Combiners, send those outputs through GFP circuit
breakers, into charge controllers, back thorough breaker, into a bus bar,
through a main breaker and onto a large battery bank.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>I am using 2 Outback Radian inverters, but I refuse to install DC
breakers on their dead-front because wiring to studs facing away from the
front is an inferior design. Furthermore, I see no need to run PV
circuits through the GSLC cabinets.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>I looked at the Midnite MNDC15 but again, these use panel mounted
breakers with studs on the back.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Anyone know of a more thoughtfully designed PV recombiner?<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Thanks in advance,<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>William Miller<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><image003.jpg><br>
<dd>Lic 773985<br>
<dd><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/">millersolar.com</a><br>
<dd><a href="tel:805-438-5600">805-438-5600</a><br>
<dd> <br><br>
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<dd>Chris Mason<br>
<dd>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<br>
<dd>Solar Design Engineer<br>
<dd>Generac Generators Industrial technician<br>
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