<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.msochpdefault, li.msochpdefault, div.msochpdefault
{mso-style-name:msochpdefault;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.emailstyle17
{mso-style-name:emailstyle17;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:960264888;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:1651267192 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang="EN-US" link="#000000" vlink="#000000"><div><div style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">I suggest you review the testing UL did regarding firefighting and PV, specifically their tests involving the use of foam, before jumping on that bandwagon...</div></div><div dir="ltr"><hr><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;">From: </span><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><a href="mailto:palumbo131m@gmail.com">Dave Palumbo</a></span><br><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;">Sent: </span><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">9/20/2016 10:25</span><br><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;">To: </span><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">'RE-wrenches'</a></span><br><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;">Subject: </span><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire fighters safety class</span><br><br></div><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Thanks Dan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Thanks for these good points and good ideas. Of course safety of the responders/helpers is #1, thanks for the reminder.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>I have not heard about spraying foam on the array to disable. What are the specifics on this? What kind of foam? Are your local fire fighters equipped to spray this when needed? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Also, I had not thought that there would be lethal voltage from a PV array at night. Are you talking about small amounts of moonlight and starlight generating enough power to kill someone who cuts into those wires?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Another question for the group. On an off-grid home, or barn, powered by an inverter I would assume that if fire fighters (wearing protective gloves) have cut into the homes AC wiring that the inverter power will be disabled assuming shorted wires. I know the old Trace SW's and the OutBack inverters shut off quickly in cases of shorted output wiring. <u>Do all stand alone inverters shut down quickly in cases of shorted output?</u> At this point the fire fighter would need to be concerned with the battery bank, any DC voltages in the structure, and of course whatever other power source may be connected to the structure - fossil fueled generator, PV array, wind turbine, hydro turbine. I recommend that the emergency responders send one person to sweep around the perimeter of the building(s) looking for any potential power generators. This person should have enough training/experience to disable these alternate generators by shutting off the fuel sources and or throwing disconnect switches as required.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Dave Palumbo<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Independent Power LLC<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Hyde Park, VT<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-image: none;"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'> RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>dan@foxfire-energy.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 20, 2016 9:10 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire fighters safety class<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Hey Dave, I'm a retired level 2 Fire Fighter and EMT. I've been invited to address several EMS departments and State Electrical Classes about Solar / Off Grid emergencies. All departments are required to re certify annually in subjects like CPR and Hazardous Materials (HAZMAT), so I try to build on that training. Basically, I like the strategy 'Identify the threat, protect yourself and the public'.. In that order.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>HAZMAT training (Including downed power lines, crashed trailer trucks and some industrial emergencies ), teaches to identify the threat and cordon off the area based on the threat identified. i.e. don't compromise FF safety if it's not absolutely necessary. Yes, there are times when a FF needs to conduct a hasty search, but the focus is on life safety, not property. Yes, EMS can still knock down a structure fire and overhaul, but there are situations where the best approach is to just keep everyone away and call in the pros.. The trick is knowing the difference.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>As we all know, the old 'Axe thru the battery cable' can be a recipe for disaster. If the battery is under load and gassing (an most likely the FF won't know because they're using SCBA), cutting the wire could set off an explosion. Similarly, I got to sit in on a conversation between a Prof. of Alternative Energy Vehicles at MIT and a Formula One Electric Racing Team.. Apparently many of the newer battery designs can ignite or explode if not handled properly.. and it sounds like once some of them go, there is no stopping them.. Again, Identify and if it's beyond their training, run.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>As for neutralizing an array, as you know the industry suggests covering the array with an opaque covering.. Looks good on paper, but could be a PIA.. I like to advise shooting the array with heavy foam from the ground to temporarily disable the array.. Even at night, although they don't make power, they can still have a lethal VOC.. Again, call in the pros.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>I think your point about the industry going thru so many changes over the years is an under statement. I've seen systems installed in the 80's that are safe, well designed and still performing perfectly. I've also seen systems installed more recently I wouldn't want my cat near.. There's been so many DIY systems and Uncle Larry installs, there's no telling what's going on.. More times than not, the home owner knows what's what.. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Rule #1 in HAZMAT, 'If you see a truck driver running away from a crash.. keep up with them'.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Hope this helps. db<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'><br>Dan Brown<br>Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>Renewable Energy Systems<br>(802)-483-2564<br><a href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com"><span style="color: windowtext;">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</span></a><br>NABCEP #092907-44<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote id="replyBlockquote" style="border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; border-style: none none none solid; border-color: currentColor currentColor currentColor blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; border-image: none; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-left: 6pt;"><div id="wmQuoteWrapper"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire fighters safety class<br>From: "Dave Palumbo" <<a href="mailto:palumbo131m@gmail.com"><span style="color: windowtext;">palumbo131m@gmail.com</span></a>><br>Date: Mon, September 19, 2016 10:13 pm<br>To: "'RE-wrenches'" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><span style="color: windowtext;">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>I will be presenting a class on "Solar Home Fire Fighter Safety" to our local volunteer fire department this coming weekend. I will tour them around my off grid neighborhood so that we can review various PV, micro-hydro, different inverters and battery systems, various back-up generators - diesel, LP gas, tractor PTO as well as standard gasoline generators. Then we will visit a 7 year old 5kW net-metered PV system on a 75 year old home (no battery back-up).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8pt;'> </span><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10pt;">·</span><span style="color: black; font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>I'm sure that there will be questions about Tesla Power Wall battery packs as Green Mountain Power is selling and leasing these in Vermont. I have no experience with Lithium Ion batteries at this point and I could use some advice for the fire fighters.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10pt;">·</span><span style="color: black; font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Would you be more, less, or equally concerned entering a home with back-up Li batteries vs AGM's vs Standard LA's?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10pt;">·</span><span style="color: black; font-size: 7pt;"> </span><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>There are some 500kW and larger solar farms going in locally recently. Anything that fire fighters need to know about these fenced in power generators? Say, vs utility sub-stations that they may be familiar with?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>Thoughts on pulling utility meters to disconnect power from homes that have a fire on the premises? Arc flash back is a real issue and these volunteer squads are not going to have full flashback protection. What are the odds of serious injury of pulling a meter to disable utility electricity to a home on fire? Many times there is no other way to quickly disconnect a home from utility power. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>As a side note, Vermont does not require licensed electricians for residential work and only a couple of municipalities require inspections. It can be a little scary, but always interesting.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>Are there any good You Tube videos on fire fighter safety and homes with solar electric systems that you recommend?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>Thanks for your time,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>David Palumbo <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>Independent Power LLC<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>462 Solar Way Drive<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>Hyde Park, VT 05655<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>802-371-8678 cell<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'>802-888-4917 home<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'><hr width="100%" size="2" align="center"></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style='color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><u><span style="color: blue;">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</span></u></a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"><u><span style="color: blue;">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span></u></a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"><u><span style="color: blue;">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</span></u></a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"><u><span style="color: blue;">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</span></u></a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"><u><span style="color: blue;">www.members.re-wrenches.org</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></body></html>