<p dir="ltr">Thanks Bob. We are using agm batteries and everything should have been turned off including the battery box breakers before the customer left. We could deal with a few months of self discharge. The array was snow covered at max tilt due to it being on a hillside and not tall enough. Controller cycling and inverter brought the system down. This customer also refused to have his generator hooked up to a auto start module for fear it would be completely snow covered. Go figure. Pulling the batteries to see if they are salvageable. Never working with diy homeowners again. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Aaron Mandelkorn<br>
Owner/Solar Specialist<br>
Renewable Energy Outfitters<br>
<a href="http://www.reosolar.com">www.reosolar.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.offgriddepot.biz">www.offgriddepot.biz</a><br>
970-596-3744<br>
719-221-5249<br>
<a href="mailto:reosolar@gmail.com">reosolar@gmail.com</a></p>
<p dir="ltr"> </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 31, 2016 2:12 PM, "<a href="mailto:bob@midnitesolar.com">bob@midnitesolar.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:bob@midnitesolar.com">bob@midnitesolar.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Aaron, lead acid batteries will "self discharge". Letting them
sit for more than</p>
<p>a couple of weeks may not be that good for them as they can
sulfate without a good absorb</p>
<p>charge cycle every once in a while at least for a couple of
hours.</p>
<p>The inverter and charge controller will always draw some power
from the batteries just being</p>
<p>connected. This is due mainly to the internal auxiliary supplies
and microprocessors. If the main battery</p>
<p>breakers were turned off when the customer left for the winter,
the batteries will still discharge</p>
<p>themselves and start to sulfate but the voltage dropping would
not happen quite as fast.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>You might want to add a small backup generator and tilt the PV
array more vertical to help</p>
<p>shed the snow during the winter months if nobody is around to
take care of the system.</p><font color="#888888">
boB
</font><div class="elided-text"><p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div>On 5/31/2016 10:43 AM, Aaron Mandelkorn
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Thank you everyone for your input. I am quite sure
this controller was just doing what it was supposed to do. The
inverter disconnected from low voltage and the solar modules
were covered with snow for months. The classic was trying to
reconnect all this time and I believe acted as a load on the
batteries. Essentially the classic brought the system down but
poor design and actions by the customer are what led to this
disaster. I will be pulling the batteries and changing/ load
testing at the shop. Hopefully we didn't destroy this battery
bank. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Aaron Mandelkorn<br>
Owner/Solar Specialist<br>
Renewable Energy Outfitters<br>
<a href="http://www.reosolar.com" target="_blank">www.reosolar.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.offgriddepot.biz" target="_blank">www.offgriddepot.biz</a><br>
<a href="tel:970-596-3744" target="_blank">970-596-3744</a><br>
<a href="tel:719-221-5249" target="_blank">719-221-5249</a><br>
<a href="mailto:reosolar@gmail.com" target="_blank">reosolar@gmail.com</a></p>
<p dir="ltr"> </p>
<div style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi
Aaron,
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">A
customer of mine had a very similar situation happen
couple years ago, except with the added fun of frozen
batteries, split open and a resulting mess. (system was
installed by others without a proper battery box / spill
containment).
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">This
fault was traced back to a failed MX60 controller that
was not only preventing solar input, but had a small
parasitic load on the system that was enough to
discharge the batteries. Replaced controller, new
batteries (with spill containment!) and the system has
been fine since.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Kevin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Aaron Mandelkorn<br>
<b>Sent:</b> May-30-16 9:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Fried Classic150?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>The more I think about this the stranger it seems. All
system breakers were left on before leaving for the
winter. Inverter was also on to power two small AC fans.
How can a 48 volt battery bank get so discharged to the
point of almost complete depletion (13.7 volts). The
inverter low battery cutout was programmed to 48.1v and
there are no DC loads. Isn't the point of lbco to protect
against this exact situation? What could have brought this
bank down so low? I am wondering if my client may have
reset the lbco and other settings by throwing the inverter
breaker by accident. </p>
<p>Aaron Mandelkorn<br>
Owner/Solar Specialist<br>
Renewable Energy Outfitters<br>
<a href="http://www.reosolar.com" target="_blank">www.reosolar.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.offgriddepot.biz" target="_blank">www.offgriddepot.biz</a><br>
<a href="tel:970-596-3744" value="+19705963744" target="_blank">970-596-3744</a><br>
<a href="tel:719-221-5249" value="+17192215249" target="_blank">719-221-5249</a><br>
<a href="mailto:reosolar@gmail.com" target="_blank">reosolar@gmail.com</a></p>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On May 30, 2016 8:43 PM, "Dan Fink"
<<a href="mailto:danbob88@gmail.com" target="_blank">danbob88@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">MPPT does need a minimum battery
voltage to wake up and start charging, at least 9
volts -- I once arrived at a remote site on a sunny
day, the PV input breaker had tripped, batteries
were under 9v, no charging despite the sunny weather
until I woke the MPPT up with jumper cables from my
truck battery. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Dan
Fink</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Adjunct
Professor of Solar Energy
Technology, Ecotech
Institute</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">IREC
Certified Instructor™ for: </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">~ PV
Installation Professional</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">~
Small Wind Installer</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Executive
Director, Buckville Energy</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">NABCEP
Registered Continuing
Education Providers™<br>
<a href="tel:970.672.4342" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">970.672.4342</span></a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 5:59
PM, Aaron Mandelkorn <<a href="mailto:reosolar@gmail.com" target="_blank">reosolar@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p>Hi all. I returned to a off grid site today
after having no winter access. It appears as
though the classic 150 charge controller has
failed. The batteries are completely discharged.
The classics screen will flash occasionally as
well as a yellow light on this left front of the
controller but wont turn on. Does the classic
have a minimum voltage requirement needed to
turn on? Has anyone else experienced this? I
can't figure out what happened to cause this
issue.
</p>
<p>Thanks </p>
<p><span style="color:#888888">Aaron Mandelkorn<br>
Owner/Solar Specialist<br>
Renewable Energy Outfitters<br>
<a href="http://www.reosolar.com" target="_blank">www.reosolar.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.offgriddepot.biz" target="_blank">www.offgriddepot.biz</a><br>
<a href="tel:970-596-3744" target="_blank">970-596-3744</a><br>
<a href="tel:719-221-5249" target="_blank">719-221-5249</a><br>
<a href="mailto:reosolar@gmail.com" target="_blank">reosolar@gmail.com</a></span></p>
<p><span style="color:#888888"> </span></p>
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