<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Allan,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I was at our new Kohler dealer today. They had a trailer mounted, propane water cooled 25kw with fuel storage and sound enclosure, really nice machine, but it was $29,000</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Its kind of weird that there isn’t anything in the lower sizes that is water cooled, good quality, in propane anyway.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">jay</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">peltz power</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 4, 2016, at 10:30 AM, Allan Sindelar <<a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" class="">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Lena and all,</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I was watching this thread closely, as I have shared your concerns and I was hoping to hear of any new solutions. In this thread I hear of Gillette (always positively over the years that this question has come up), one 5.5kW Onan RV set (120V only and too small for all but an Outback VFX at close to sea level), and Hardy diesel units. I have nothing to add to these suggestions.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I went out on a limb a few years ago in suggesting the Generac EcoGen, hoping that this would fill this need and restore Generac as a worthy name. I think now I have to just say "eh..." - yes, it works, but too many problems have been noted here, and Generac's dealer support system is poorly suited to the off grid market.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Thank you to all who replied.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Allan</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><div class="moz-signature" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class="">Allan Sindelar</b><br class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""><a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" style="color: blue;" class=""></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" style="color: blue;">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<br class="">NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br class="">New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br class="">Founder (Retired),<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="">Positive Energy, Inc.</span><br class=""><b class="">505 780-2738 cell</b><br class=""><br class=""><b class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></b></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div><div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">On 4/28/2016 10:19 AM, Lena Wilensky wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote cite="mid:CANJJ-3VT0B7946iF7rrh0d9YAsCYoqP1Y2aThtbLhzeFY=50og@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and we run into 2 main problem areas:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 year).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the "off-grid" units. The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains). According to the Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset computer.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are held to tougher emissions standards.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan? Generac? Have folks been going back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more? And how are cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Any suggestions appreciated!</div><div class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Lena Wilensky<br class=""><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="imap://allan%40sindelarsolar%2Ecom@box411.bluehost.com:993/fetch%3EUID%3E.INBOX.Drafts%3E1331?format=1500w" height="74" width="200" class=""><br class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.nunatakenergy.com/" target="_blank" style="color: blue;" class="">www.nunatakenergy.com</a><br class="">970-642-5554<br class="">NABCEP Certified PV Installer:<br class="">Cert. #R02907-17<br class=""><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="imap://allan%40sindelarsolar%2Ecom@box411.bluehost.com:993/fetch%3EUID%3E.INBOX.Drafts%3E1331?format=300w" height="96" width="75" class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><br class=""><pre wrap="" class="">_______________________________________________
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</pre></blockquote><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; 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