<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Seasonal use is a very frequent application that we design for in Mexico and Canada. Usually the seasonal residence sets for 6 months or longer. We have tried several methods of preserving flooded battery life including water-miser caps, short absorb times, no absorb time, 2 stage charge with the CV below gassing point and battery additives. Even so, more than half of our Mexico customers ruin batteries in 3-5 years due to prolonged periods without maintenance. The northern customers fair much better. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">AGM’s perform much better than flooded but Lithium batteries are the best for long term non-use. You can simply discharge the battery to 50% then turn off the battery and walk away. When you return in 6-7 months, you will find it at the same SoC as when you left. For long term seasonal storage, that is all I recommend anymore. <div class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class="">Larry Crutcher<br class="">Starlight Solar Power Systems<br class=""></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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<br class=""><div><div class="">On Apr 30, 2016, at 12:54 PM, Dana <<a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" class="">dana@solarwork.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii" class=""><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)" class=""><style class=""><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" class=""><div class="WordSection1"><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;" class="">I have yet to see any FLA battery that can go 4-5 months without service. Typically a FLA needs an increased voltage to attain the same full charge rating at low temps, but you still require watering. I have clients with shut down houses and no load situations, we back off the Absorb set point voltage, & time at full & they still require watering.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;" class=""> This thread started with “</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">? I don't think the friend will be savvy enough to disconnect/connect them every year and I don't feel like having to go out there every season for them.”<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> </span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"" class="">Based on this statement would you still recommend FAL batteries? I have clients with AGMS that are partial year residents & their AGMS are at 8-10 years and still doing the job. That said some clients even full time occupants cannot water & test the SG on a FLA to save their life (or sustain the batteries life).<br class=""><br class=""></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#002060" class="">----------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;" class="">Dana Orzel <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;" class="">Great Solar Works, Inc - NABCEP # 051112-136<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;" class="">E - <b class=""><a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" class="">dana@solarwork.com</a></b> - Web - <a href="http://solarwork.com" class="">solarwork.com</a> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;" class="">O - 970.626.5253 C - <b class="">208.721.7003</b><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;" class="">"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b class=""><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green" class="">P</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:navy" class=""> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green" class="">Please consider the environment before printing this email.</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> RE-wrenches [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" class="">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Starlight Solar Power Systems<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Saturday, April 30, 2016 1:28 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> RE-wrenches<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Winter Battery Maintenance<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">I agree with Todd and Bob, leave the PV solar on, EQ off. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">I also instruct my customers to reduce the absorb timer to 0.1 hours. Since the battery is staying full, there is no need to spend time above cell gassing point which will increase water loss.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">Larry<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">On Apr 30, 2016, at 10:28 AM, RE Ellison <<a href="mailto:reellison@gmail.com" class="">reellison@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">Everything mentioned so far works well however, if you're using a charge controller with an auto equalize function.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">Turn it off!<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">I had a friend who has left his system over the winter for years with no issues and he shut his inverters off one year got back to the batteries being boiled dry<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">After a lot of looking I figured out that it had gone into auto equalize and since the available sunshine per day was so low that it just kept trying all winter long to equalize the batteries<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">There was a battery replacement in his future relatively quickly!<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">It was an expensive lesson and I have since gone to all of the systems similar to that that I have installed over the years and shut off the auto equalize<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">It's not an issue if somebody's around but they were gone for like five months and it was not a good outcome<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">This particular system had three charge controllers,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">A combination of MX 60 and FM 60s I believe<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">Just my thoughts,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">Bob ellison<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br class="">On Apr 30, 2016, at 12:43 PM, <a href="mailto:toddcory@finestplanet.com" class="">toddcory@finestplanet.com</a> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">i built a system for a friend's seasonal (summer) off-grid residence in alaska. </span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="word-wrap: break-word"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">my instructions were simple: </span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">leave the pv input & cc output breakers "on" and the load breakers (inverter, dc sunfrost etc) "off". </span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="word-wrap: break-word"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">there was never a problem with winter freezing (even at -40f) until one year when he accidently left the inverter's breaker on. even with no load, the inverter's idle current drained the batteries and they froze. he only made that mistake once.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="word-wrap: break-word"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">todd</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="word-wrap: break-word"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="word-wrap: break-word"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="word-wrap: break-word"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="word-wrap: break-word"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="word-wrap: break-word"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:14.0pt"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">On Saturday, April 30, 2016 8:13am, "Solar" <<a href="mailto:dahlsolar@gmail.com" class="">dahlsolar@gmail.com</a>> said:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div id="SafeStyles1462034123" class=""><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">> I do systems like this every year. (-45F winter temps). Use quick connects and<br class="">> train the customer on the batteries and their maintenance. Find bats with freeze<br class="">> points that match your area. I typically mount the modules at 90degree so snow<br class="">> never covers the array/module.<br class="">> <br class="">> I always recommend removal. I've thought about temp controlled incandescent lamp<br class="">> with a timer in a battery box for really cold nights.... Haven't got around to<br class="">> working through that design.<br class="">> <br class="">> I'm interested in the real seasoned off-grid installers thoughts about this.<br class="">> <br class="">> Jesse Dahl<br class="">> <br class="">> NABCEP PV Installation Professional<br class="">> IBEW Local 292 - Electrician<br class="">> Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC<br class="">> <br class="">> Sent from my iPhone<br class="">> <br class="">> > On Apr 30, 2016, at 9:07 AM, AE Solar <<a href="mailto:autonomousenergies@gmail.com" class="">autonomousenergies@gmail.com</a>><br class="">> wrote:<br class="">> ><br class="">> > Hey Wrenchers,<br class="">> ><br class="">> > A friend wants a very small battery set up at hunting cabin (like under 1kW).<br class="">> It will only be used in the warmer months. I'm wondering what you all recommend<br class="">> for the batteries over the winter. I assume the ideal situation would be that they<br class="">> would be disconnected and brought somewhere warm for the winter (the cabin will be<br class="">> subject to below freezing temps)??<br class="">> ><br class="">> > So long as they go into the colder months with a full charge is it alright to<br class="">> leave them hooked up? I don't think the friend will be savvy enough to<br class="">> disconnect/connect them every year and I don't feel like having to go out there<br class="">> every season for them.<br class="">> ><br class="">> > Thanks for any thoughts.<br class="">> > Adam<br class="">> ><br class="">> > Adam Katzman<br class="">> > Autonomous Energies<br class="">> ><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br class=""><br class="">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" class="">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><br class="">Change listserver email address & settings:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" class="">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><br class="">List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html<br class=""><br class="">List rules & etiquette:<br class="">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<br class=""><br class="">Check out or update participant bios:<br class="">www.members.re-wrenches.org<br class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>