<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Dear List,<br></div>Maybe it's an over simplistic opinion, but shouldnt all sources be disconnected rapidly in an emergency situation.<br></div>We can always do better than what the code requires. I get frustrated when people go to the book, (and try to hide behind the text). instead of thinking through real life scenarios.<br></div>There are simple ways to work around these issues.<br></div>I find when something is questionable, Ill call the AHJ and get his approval First.<br></div>What would I do in my own house?<br></div>What if someone thought all the power was off when they dragged a hoseline into my basement.<br></div>My two cents<br></div>Pat<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:10 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Ray,<br>
<br>
I guess I have to step in after that acknowledgement. PV system circuit is a<br>
self-defined term and therefore cannot be defined unless you are going to<br>
develop a meaning that is different from the self-definition. It means ANY<br>
circuit in a PV system. This includes battery and stand-alone circuits in<br>
the 2014 NEC.<br>
<br>
The language of the 2014 NEC was a compromise between the fire service and<br>
the PV industry. Originally, the language required essentially module-level<br>
shutdown. I raised the concern with the PV industry to get them involved<br>
since most were not paying attention at the time. This language was<br>
developed and intended to cover all circuits in a PV system. In the 2014<br>
NEC, batteries are part of a PV system and therefore fall under this<br>
requirement.<br>
<br>
In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads,<br>
that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own<br>
articles. Don't shoot the messenger on this one and don't think for a minute<br>
that I alone made this requirement or am alone in interpreting it in this<br>
way. I did author this compromise with other representatives of the PV<br>
industry so I think I know what the intent was.<br>
<br>
It is understandably difficult for battery systems and I would try to keep<br>
battery circuits as short as possible. The 5-feet was intended to match the<br>
requirement of 690.71(H)--which is further evidence of the intent of the<br>
2014 NEC.<br>
<br>
The 2017 NEC removes batteries from the requirement, but they still cannot<br>
backfeed the PV array. Energy storage systems (Article 706) will have their<br>
own requirements in time--that is guaranteed.<br>
<br>
Bill.<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On<br>
Behalf Of Ray Walters<br>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:02 AM<br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown<br>
<br>
Greetings Esteemed Wrenches:<br>
<br>
I've just heard back from our inspector here in Colorado, and we are still<br>
being required to disconnect the batteries under 690.12. No where in 690.12<br>
are batteries mentioned, nor in the appropriate 690.71 section that deals<br>
with batteries. The entire reasoning behind this is based on a single<br>
article written by a single person: Bill Brooks. I have contacted both<br>
Outback and Magnum on this issue, and their engineers are unaware that rapid<br>
shutdown applies.<br>
My interpretation is that I could install an inverter and battery system<br>
that was charged from a generator, and we would not need any rapid shutdown<br>
at all. But according to Bill, as soon as I put a single solar module into<br>
the system, suddenly the entire system becomes PV? The problem lies with the<br>
term 'PV System circuit' used in 690.12. 690.2 Defines 'PV Output<br>
circuit', and 'PV source circuit', but there is no 'PV system circuit'<br>
defined. 690.12 therefore uses an undefined term.<br>
Our design uses 2 inverters, so if we used Midnite's E panel with their<br>
remote trip breakers, the 2nd inverter would be more than 5 ft from the<br>
batteries. If we used Magnum or Outback DC disconnects (that would comply<br>
with the 5 ft rule specified in 690.71) they don't offer remote trip.<br>
We have a Midnite Rapid disconnect Combiner on the roof with the Birdhouse,<br>
so we are complying with 690.12, it should not be applied to batteries<br>
though.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
--<br>
R.Ray Walters<br>
CTO, Solarray, Inc<br>
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,<br>
Licensed Master Electrician<br>
Solar Design Engineer<br>
303 505-8760<br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Patrick A. Shortell<div><i>Licensed Master Electrician</i></div><div><i>Certified Solar Installer</i></div><div>71 Oregon Street</div><div>Long Beach N.Y. 11561</div><div>cell: 516-477-0221</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>