<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">This is from the spec sheet:<br class=""><br class="">"Hermetically sealed – UL listed: UL1604 for Class I & II, Div 2 and Class III for use in hazardous<br class="">locations, IP67 for temporary water immersion for 30 min, IP69K for perssure washing, SAE J1171 - external ignition protection, and ISO8846 for protection against ignition around flammable gasses."<br class=""><div class=""><br class="">No enclosure, just the solenoid as shown:<br class=""><br class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="D3978799-EDA1-4159-879A-ACCEE054D08A" height="240" width="307" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:32589A20-0126-45C7-8DAA-49821D6EA239@Home" class=""></div><br class="">On Mar 15, 2016, at 2:47 PM, Ray Walters <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" class="">ray@solarray.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">All right Larry, that's an actual start to a solution. My comments:<br class="">1) We already have had a solution for the array side using a Midnite Birdhouse and Midnite rapid disconnecting combiner box. (The PV Circuit of the "PV system circuit" so I wasn't questioning that)<br class="">2) Who is the supplier of the 400 amp solenoid, <br class="">3) is it UL listed for Rapid disconnect, <br class="">4) does it have an approved enclosure? (ie. does the solenoid comes mounted in a UL listed assembly)<br class=""><br class="">Thanks,<br class=""><div class="">R.Ray Walters</div><div class="">CTO, Solarray, Inc</div><div class="">Nabcep Certified PV Installer, </div><div class="">Licensed Master Electrician</div><div class="">Solar Design Engineer</div><div class="">303 505-8760</div><br class="">On 3/15/2016 2:57 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:<br class=""><blockquote cite="mid:F7C1757B-2D78-482D-AB42-E2BFBA7514CC@starlightsolar.com" type="cite" class="">I thought this idea (attached) was a simple solution for array and battery rapid shutdown using a Classic controller and solenoids. The PV solenoids are 350 amp continuous @ 700 Vdc, and 400A @ 48 volts for the battery. Cost is about $120 each. <br class=""><br class="">Midnite told me than plan to implement the arc fault relay control. A simple SPST switch in series with the 12 volt Aux output will allow shutdown. Add a fire alarm output relay for auto-shutdown in case of fire. Seems like a simple, cost effective way to me.<br class=""><br class="">Any comments Ray, Pete, Bill?<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><span id="cid:part1.07050705.08010200@solarray.com"><Mail Attachment.png></span><br class=""><br class="">Larry Crutcher<br class="">Starlight Solar Power Systems<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">On Mar 15, 2016, at 12:48 PM, Patrick Shortell <<a href="mailto:pshortell6@gmail.com" class="">pshortell6@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">Dear List,<br class="">Maybe it's an over simplistic opinion, but shouldnt all sources be disconnected rapidly in an emergency situation.<br class="">We can always do better than what the code requires. I get frustrated when people go to the book, (and try to hide behind the text). instead of thinking through real life scenarios.<br class="">There are simple ways to work around these issues.<br class="">I find when something is questionable, Ill call the AHJ and get his approval First.<br class="">What would I do in my own house?<br class="">What if someone thought all the power was off when they dragged a hoseline into my basement.<br class="">My two cents<br class="">Pat<br class=""><br class="">On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:10 PM, <billbrooks7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:<br class="">Ray,<br class=""><br class="">I guess I have to step in after that acknowledgement. PV system circuit is a<br class="">self-defined term and therefore cannot be defined unless you are going to<br class="">develop a meaning that is different from the self-definition. It means ANY<br class="">circuit in a PV system. This includes battery and stand-alone circuits in<br class="">the 2014 NEC.<br class=""><br class="">The language of the 2014 NEC was a compromise between the fire service and<br class="">the PV industry. Originally, the language required essentially module-level<br class="">shutdown. I raised the concern with the PV industry to get them involved<br class="">since most were not paying attention at the time. This language was<br class="">developed and intended to cover all circuits in a PV system. In the 2014<br class="">NEC, batteries are part of a PV system and therefore fall under this<br class="">requirement.<br class=""><br class="">In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads,<br class="">that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own<br class="">articles. Don't shoot the messenger on this one and don't think for a minute<br class="">that I alone made this requirement or am alone in interpreting it in this<br class="">way. I did author this compromise with other representatives of the PV<br class="">industry so I think I know what the intent was.<br class=""><br class="">It is understandably difficult for battery systems and I would try to keep<br class="">battery circuits as short as possible. The 5-feet was intended to match the<br class="">requirement of 690.71(H)--which is further evidence of the intent of the<br class="">2014 NEC.<br class=""><br class="">The 2017 NEC removes batteries from the requirement, but they still cannot<br class="">backfeed the PV array. Energy storage systems (Article 706) will have their<br class="">own requirements in time--that is guaranteed.<br class=""><br class="">Bill.<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">-----Original Message-----<br class="">From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] On<br class="">Behalf Of Ray Walters<br class="">Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:02 AM<br class="">To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br class="">Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown<br class=""><br class="">Greetings Esteemed Wrenches:<br class=""><br class="">I've just heard back from our inspector here in Colorado, and we are still<br class="">being required to disconnect the batteries under 690.12. No where in 690.12<br class="">are batteries mentioned, nor in the appropriate 690.71 section that deals<br class="">with batteries. The entire reasoning behind this is based on a single<br class="">article written by a single person: Bill Brooks. I have contacted both<br class="">Outback and Magnum on this issue, and their engineers are unaware that rapid<br class="">shutdown applies.<br class="">My interpretation is that I could install an inverter and battery system<br class="">that was charged from a generator, and we would not need any rapid shutdown<br class="">at all. But according to Bill, as soon as I put a single solar module into<br class="">the system, suddenly the entire system becomes PV? The problem lies with the<br class="">term 'PV System circuit' used in 690.12. 690.2 Defines 'PV Output<br class="">circuit', and 'PV source circuit', but there is no 'PV system circuit'<br class="">defined. 690.12 therefore uses an undefined term.<br class="">Our design uses 2 inverters, so if we used Midnite's E panel with their<br class="">remote trip breakers, the 2nd inverter would be more than 5 ft from the<br class="">batteries. If we used Magnum or Outback DC disconnects (that would comply<br class="">with the 5 ft rule specified in 690.71) they don't offer remote trip.<br class="">We have a Midnite Rapid disconnect Combiner on the roof with the Birdhouse,<br class="">so we are complying with 690.12, it should not be applied to batteries<br class="">though.<br class=""><br class="">Thanks,<br class=""><br class="">--<br class="">R.Ray Walters<br class="">CTO, Solarray, Inc<br class="">Nabcep Certified PV Installer,<br class="">Licensed Master Electrician<br class="">Solar Design Engineer<br class="">303 505-8760<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><div class="">_______________________________________________</div><div class="">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">List Address: </div>RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Change listserver email address & settings:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">List-Archive: </div>http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">List rules & etiquette:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Check out or update participant bios:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">www.members.re-wrenches.org<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></blockquote><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br class=""><br class="">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" class="">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><br class="">Change listserver email address & settings:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" class="">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><br class="">List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html<br class=""><br class="">List rules & etiquette:<br class="">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<br class=""><br class="">Check out or update participant bios:<br class="">www.members.re-wrenches.org<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></body></html>